Belts

I've noticed that the Belt system is most common in Japanize and American schools. Not so common in the internal schools i know atleast at my school we dont use belts. I was wondering your opinions on the whole belt system and if any internal schools use it. Personally i disagree with the belt system

The belt system is alright in any MA school, as long as it is the teacher who thinks you deserve the belt, not a test given after a certain amount of time. When that happens, the belt system actually gains some usefulness as it tells you that your teacher thinks that you're becoming as good as he/she is, so the belt becomes an opinion, and lets you know where your are at. Getting belt tests lets you know that you can pass the belt test, and do we really care about that (well some people care more for the belt than the art, but usually learn not to as they train more). Belts also let you change MA schools without changing the level at which you're supposed to be training at in the school.
One fault in the system of belts is that almost all the schools only have a white belt as the first level and a black belt as the last. The rest of the belts change order according to school, so that if you're changing from school to school, and want to study at your belt's level, then you've got a small problem (easily solved, yet still a problem).
The belt system is alright, as all it can do is create a psychological difference (don't count negligible or easy to correct things like belt weight, belt tightness, uncomfortableness from belt), which is something simple to take out.

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"Every moment gives us a chance to become better than who we already are" -Ryu (street fighter 3, 3rd strike)

Belt/sashes or grades have both good and bad points.
Good points; they give people something to aim for, act as a reward for the hard work and practice, they can bring order and respect for the lower/beginning students, people seem to love them.
Bad points; they become the sole point of learning, the gradings can be blown out of all proportion causing stress etc, people demane respect and think they know it all becuase they have that black belt.

Personally I try not to worry about them. They do exist in my school but their importants depends who's teaching you. They do stop people from going to advanced class before they are ready. If you train hard and take real interest in what you do then there is no need for belts.

Maybe they are the reason why MA have got a bit of bad rep in the west. Black belts were once the very top of their art and truely deserved respect are years of constant daily practice. Now you can get a black belt in 5 years taking evening classes! So what is that black belt really worth now

“	Originally posted by kuanti Belt/sashes or grades have both good and bad points. Good points; they give people something to aim for, act as a reward for the hard work and practice, they can bring order and respect for the lower/beginning students, people seem to love them. Bad points; they become the sole point of learning, the gradings can be blown out of all proportion causing stress etc, people demane respect and think they know it all becuase they have that black belt.	”

Sigh... all it's worth here is a sort of certification.. proves sh** all about your capablity, but opens doors to start with.

beltlessly and certificatelessly yours,
nevilleb

belts are for holding your trousers up. Are useful in large organisations such that visiting instructors can see who is ecpected to know what (or if you visit somewhere else and want to know who to spar with at your level etc)

agree with nevileb - beltlessly yours

RT

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"What can be said at all can be said clearly; and whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent" - Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus

Didnt one of the gracie family say that "a belt only covers 2 inches of your arse, the rest is up to you"

If they did, then I agree. Belts dont mean squat

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Chen Man Ching implemented a ranking system for Tai Chi Chuan Which our school recognizes with 12 levels. It's given in detail in Master Jou Tsung Hwa's book Tao of Tai Chi Chuan. In class you can ware a black sash or no sash it doesn't matter. Student level is obvious with out belts and those look up to senior members for advice ect. And its not because they have a fancy uniform or shoes.peace for now.

“	Originally posted by nevilleb Sigh... all it's worth here is a sort of certification.. proves sh** all about your capablity, but opens doors to start with. beltlessly and certificatelessly yours, nevilleb	”

That is what I was trying to get at it a more diplomatic manner!

the belts themselves don't mean much. but if the sytems is done right i think they can be useful. for one thing, as someone that previously posted, they give someone a goal to shoot for and show progress, and that is very good for people to see themselves progressing. another benefit is it tells another student your level of skill, and that a higher rank should not do certain techniques to someone of a lower rank. they are not ready yet. conversly. when you put on that high ranking belt you better be prepared!! and of course, if your instructor is just throwing belts out there then the benefits are lost.

To borrow from migo.
A belt only covers two inches of your ass and the rest you need to back up on your own.
---Royce Gracie

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Daniel W. "Gigagei Waya" McCullar, 4th Dan

Oooh, look the Korean stylist used Chinese
http://www.dragonslist.com/discussio...read-ever.html

Belts definatly don't atest to capability. They are an income source( testing fees), an achievment goal, an ego booster, a way to tag students by knowledge level ( not capability level ), and pretty much a requirement in that most people demand some sort of recognition for what they do.

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Daniel W. "Gigagei Waya" McCullar, 4th Dan

Oooh, look the Korean stylist used Chinese
http://www.dragonslist.com/discussio...read-ever.html

Hey I was at a tournament and I saw 8 and 10 year olds with black belts in taekwondo

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Edmund Burke,

i am surprised to hear that, although i don't know any of the TKD rules. i know some arts have age requirements.

i think it only takes about 2 years to recieve a black belt in TKD.
the problem with belts is that dojos arent places of learning as much as they are places of business. if your check clears, you get your belt.

Belts have been controversial subject in many threads I have seen. I don't think doing away with a belt system automatically means that students who have studied the arts for say, 20 years are any more legitimate or skilled than someone who is a tenth degree black belt. It is the individual that matters always. Some people say they are black belts and are worthless martial artists. Some people say they are no good and have plenty of skill to defend themselves at lower levels of experience.
A belt is only some type of recognition. Whether it means anything is up to the person wearing it, but just because an art has a belt system does not prove it faulty or worthless.
SLT