Has anyone heard of Falun Dafa???

“	Originally Posted By: Inner Circle ... (ching how we get a body, chi how the body forms, shen what moves the body) ...	”

Hey, I like that! A very concise way to put it.

Falun GOng never says leave society. In fact, it takes the route of cultivating in society and maintaining day to day lives. That is really the only way to imporve, you need the test of material gain and stepping on people's toes to truly imporve and abandon the attachments to such things fully. If you isolate in a monastary, it is sort of too easy in a way. In the current age, you must cultivate amongst others in society. Jesus said, " love thy neighbor as thyself". Falun gong is the only qigong practice doing this. THere is one other method for the public, it is the cultivation from Shargung La monastary, and is called the Golden Rule organisation. Other than that, I know of no other high level spiritual cultivation being taught publically.

http://media1.minghui.org/media/dafa...ExeDemo_08.ram

"Rotating inwards saves oneself, rotating outwards saves others, salvation for oneself and others. Salvation for all beings."

That is the perfect quote for the coming age and era. It is why cultivation must now be done in society. Because we are all one.

Personal cultivation yes, you are mixed up with god and chi. God = matter as cause being cowards and leaving it in gods hands Or a fantasy super natural beings, which has the cause or energy movement of releasing humans as responsible) real divine true humans are responsible.

Tao is energy and matter together, yang = energy as cause, matter what is moved by chi. If you break the true knowledge you practice a false art stay away from falun gong they steal and misinterpete the pure science for the benefit of the false higher knowledge person disregarding humans as a whole and blocking true awareness. The split of higher and lower worlds is very harmful in reality they are the same experience or we would not have this conversation.

“	Originally Posted By: Kilik ... "Rotating inwards saves oneself, rotating outwards saves others, salvation for oneself and others. Salvation for all beings." ...	”

But they don't explain very well how that would save anybody. They don't say why any of us should be saved, from what or to what end. It is just: "do the nice exercises, everything will be peachy." They spout a load of pseudo-mystical magic spells cribbed from Buddhism and Taoism (who actually can teach specifically, point by point, how to see the world for what it is and isn't, eventually end our suffering in it and how not be trapped by our own thought processes over those issues) and threaten their students with aliens and nuclear reactors if they don't comply.

I'm sorry, dude, you seem like you mean well, but they aren't convincing me. I'll admit up front that this is just my opinion, I know that, and I'm not trying to convince anyone to study Ch'an or T'ai Chi, I'm only answering your attempts to convince us that Li Hongzhi is a high level teacher and that we should study Falungong; you opened the door to having to endure my opinion, so to speak.

I've visited several Taoist and Ch'an Buddhist temples and teachers in China, Taiwan and Hong Kong over the years and they were very down to earth, practical and (to me, at least) convincing that they know what they are on about. The Falungong people I've talked to seem confused, cultish, and incapable of arguing logically and practically. when confronted by issues they can't answer they always seem to fall back on Li's dogma and then on ad hominem attacks when that doesn't work. Falungong and its vague, arrogant, too-many-comic-book-reading founder just don't seem to be in the same league as the real teachers I've been fortunate enough to meet.

“	Originally Posted By: Aesc I've visited several Taoist and Ch'an Buddhist temples and teachers in China, Taiwan and Hong Kong over the years and they were very down to earth, practical and (to me, at least) convincing that they know what they are on about. The Falungong people I've talked to seem confused, cultish, and incapable of arguing logically and practically. when confronted by issues they can't answer they always seem to fall back on Li's dogma and then on ad hominem attacks when that doesn't work. Falungong and its vague, arrogant, too-many-comic-book-reading founder just don't seem to be in the same league as the real teachers I've been fortunate enough to meet.	”

Well said.

“	Originally Posted By: Aesc But they don't explain very well how that would save anybody. They don't say why any of us should be saved, from what or to what end..	”

I already explained this in another post. It has to do with the statement by Jesus to "love thy neigbor as thyself." This is a very significant time in history and the world as we know it is going to be different in the future age, which is already on the cusp of begginning. Falun Gong is the only Chi Kung system in which this type of cultivation is possible in society.

There are also higher level principles which are related to pre historic implications. Basically Humans don't belong here, the human mind and soul was trapped here as an accident in a remote prehistoric time, hundreds of thousands or even a million years ago. A second wave of beings arranged a body and path to help those beings return to oneness and their spiritual state . But some second wave beings, whose only purpose was to help others return, found they had such power over the first wave beings and they succumbed to using their power. This is why you need to cultivate amongst society, amonst the temptations of the ordinary society, to truly cultivate to where you are out of the material plane to your original exsistence. And the time for all this too culminate? Now! It's coming! THis current time period. It is obvious to me that Falun Gong is related these profound issues, although it is still a unique school unto itself.

This a complex subject and not known to humans, and I may not explain well.

“	Originally Posted By: Aesc It is just: "do the nice exercises, everything will be peachy." They spout a load of pseudo-mystical magic spells cribbed from Buddhism and Taoism	”

Nonsense. You are making baseless claims. You can't show what "magic spells" Falun Gong stole from these religions like you say. It wouldn't need to take anything from a religion because it is older, and a true cultivation school.
It is a sytem of the Tao school of cultivation, and the buddha great law school of energy and spritual cultivation. It has nothing to do with religion nad is pure, and true to it's origin.

And True cultivation is hard. You just don't seem to understand, that is your level. In fact, this "everything's gonna be okay" stuff is coming from you. Falun GOng practitioners are not attached to anything, and can endure hardship as joy. THey do not at all expect everything to go great and fine, they expect it won't! And are prepared. They are prepared like an Earthquake proof building standing firm, for the future.

“	Originally Posted By: Aesc (who actually can teach specifically, point by point, how to see the world for what it is and isn't, eventually end our suffering in it and how not be trapped by our own thought processes over those issues) and threaten their students with aliens and nuclear reactors if they don't comply.	”

Exept you have no proof that Buddhism is like what Sakyamuni originally taught. In fact, from a research or study point of view, it appears Falun GOng can be verified as a true spiritual cultivation alot more than Buddhism. Same for Taoism, no proof there was a Lao Tzu you know. As I said, qigong has been researched by government organizations alot before the Chinese government started hardcore persecuting these type of things. MAny qigong master left their organizations and some even moved to different countries because they realized what could happen in the future with such a dictatorship in power. Religion is only the outer shell, but the inner meaning may not be there anymore. CUltivation of Tao, or cultivating to be a Buddha in a Buddha qigong cultivation school, Or how to put it, religion comes out of spiritual energy cultivation, not the other way around. To be sure, I know Sakyamuni, Lao Tzu, and Jesus were true, but there teachings are not unmolested in a pure lineage now.

“	Originally Posted By: Aesc "I'm sorry, dude, you seem like you mean well, but they aren't convincing me. I'll admit up front that this is just my opinion, I know that, and I'm not trying to convince anyone to study Ch'an or T'ai Chi, I'm only answering your attempts to convince us that Li Hongzhi is a high level teacher and that we should study Falungong; you opened the door to having to endure my opinion, so to speak."	”

That's cool, I'm not trying to convince anyone to practice. However I am just making a point I think should be understood, which many people don't seem to. THat Falun GOng is a true cultivation school made public for the coming age. It is in no way a false school, and is in no way a mish mash of religous teachings. That is just not correct, and those saying otherwise can show no evidence. It's not true. I am saying Li Hongzhi is a true teacher of a true Buddha Law. It is not buddhism or religion. In fact, if you really have been exposed to good qigong cultivation and good teachers, you don't need to be an expert to see how good Mr. Li's postures and movments are. His postures literally embody the Falun pattern. But perhaps his posture is better than your teachers, ( very likely), and you don't like that or something. I am more trying to show what is a true school, more so than showing Falun GOng is a real school, but the two go hand and hand.

[/quote]I've visited several Taoist and Ch'an Buddhist temples and teachers in China, Taiwan and Hong Kong over the years and they were very down to earth, practical and (to me, at least) convincing that they know what they are on about. The Falungong people I've talked to seem confused, cultish, and incapable of arguing logically and practically. when confronted by issues they can't answer they always seem to fall back on Li's dogma and then on ad hominem attacks when that doesn't work. Falungong and its vague, arrogant, too-many-comic-book-reading founder just don't seem to be in the same league as the real teachers I've been fortunate enough to meet.[/quote]

But were these people in temples true spiritual qigong cultivators of an orthodox school or were they religous monks? I do not want to say religion is not good, it can be, but it's not my interest, my interest is spiritual cultivation, not just developing more virtue in my life. You need virtue, but you also need cultivation. Falun GOng is the only way to truly cultivate, because it cultivates amongst society, love thy neighbor. I don't know who you've met, but it doesn't matter, Li Hongzhi is still very good campared to anyone. Second, high level is not known by many people at all, even monks of religion probably. There is a difference between a martial arts, a religion, and a spiritual cultivation practice of an orthodox school.

A Falun GOng practitioner would absolutely neve use ad hominem attacks. None I've met . In fact , I totally doubt what you say because the practice and teachings themselves have an effect on people, and they wouldn't do that after understanding the Law teachings.

" They seemed, confused, and cultish". And yet you're the one talking about vague! Falun GOng is not a cult, no membership, no fees, no convincing people, no nothing. Cultivation is serious, and up to oneself if they want to do it. It is rarely made public in history, but now it has to be.

If you think you Tai Chi or religion is good for, then that's great, continue with that. BUt Falun GOng is older and a true intact lineage. THere are a few other orthodox qigong cultivation schools around, but the high level is not taught publically. Don't diss it, it's really good.

Kilik, do you believe that David Copperfield levitates for real? If you do, don't you think it's part of his illusion act? If you don't, why do you think your top guy does and what does that mean for falun gong?
How long have you been doing it? Where do you learn?
It can seem like very exciting when you start doing something and experience things you've never known about before; you want to go out and shout about it to the whole world. But you forget that people here have been doing it for years and years. And then some. chi kung is real, it's a real Energy, but it's not a toy. You have to know what you're doing and follow natural paths. Not even a volcano erupts suddenly, there is a slow gradual build up. Things take time. Don't play with fire.

I beleive there are magicians in CHina who claim to be qigong masters. I beleive it is illegal to criticize them in CHina. THat is from CHina Falun GOng. Why is it called that? Because at that time Mr. Li was part of that China qigong research organization. He left the organization because it was too corrupt and moved to america. Is levitation possible? I don't know, I don't discount it totally.

Levitation has nothing to do with cultivation in Falun Gong, but in China some people are interested in such things. It's okay to talk about, but you have to give up that attachment when seriously begin the cultivation.

I don't practice Falun GOng, but the practices I do, I found to have alot in common with it. I know practitioners and they are the most clear headed and rational people I know, so I don't like it when people try to portray them as gullible or foolish or whatever, it's not true.

I can't say who I learn qigong from online. But in addition to that, I do Tibetan Yoga

I think Falun Gong is totally safe because while it is powerful, the energy develops naturally.

“	Originally Posted By: Kilik I don't like it when people try to portray them as gullible or foolish or whatever,	”

Looks like you've got something in common!


Shouldn't you be handing out flowers at the airport or something?

Kilik, do you believe that David Copperfield levitates for real?
Kilik, do you believe that David Copperfield levitates for real?

Mr. Li (is that right?) says so and he heads the organisation. Is he lying? Is he wrong?Is he right?
I wasn't asking for any names or addresses of where you learned from, just wondering if you travel to China for it or there's someone in your town/city?

Of course, so-called extra/super-natural feats are party tricks compared to raw natural self development with Chi and distract form the real issues, but still, Mr.Li thinks it's important and part of some greater plan. Has he been caught with a red herring?

I don't know about anyone heading anything in China. I don't live there, it is supposed to be very different than other countries though. THere are reasons Mr. Li says everything he does. It is good to think outside the box. WIth a central government in control of everyone is hard to comprehend.

I don't go to China, but of cousre someone in any lineage had to go there or be there at some point.

Levitation is not a main point for me, or for cultivators in their day to day cultivation. Really, they aren't trying to fly or anything, that's not why people practice.

“	Originally Posted By: Kilik I can't say who I learn qigong from online.	”

can I guess?
can I guess?
can I guess?
can I guess?
can I guess?
can I guess?


yes???

eh.......

does it have anything do to with......
eggs???
and bamboo????

yes???
YES?!??!?!



Chief108

__________________

“	Question Authority. Question Society. Question Reality. Question Yourself. Question your conclusions, your judgments, your answers. Question this. If you question everything thoroughly enough, the truth will eventually hit you upside the head and you will know. But here’s a warning: It won’t be what you imagined. It won’t be even close.	”

all hail Martyr Fakka

"Exept you have no proof that Buddhism is like what Sakyamuni originally taught. In fact, from a research or study point of view, it appears Falun GOng can be verified as a true spiritual cultivation alot more than Buddhism. Same for Taoism, no proof there was a Lao Tzu you know."
-Kilik

I have enough proof that the techniques of the systems associated with those names work well for what they are designed to do. ;-) There are long traditions of transmitting both Taoism and Buddhism very closely to the teachings of the founders. Did Lao Tzu really exist? Who knows? The teachings under his name are amazing in their simplicity and effectiveness, however. The same for Gautama Buddha. The earliest texts from both traditions (recovered by archaeologists) are pretty much the same as what we have now. There have been refinements and dead ends, of course, (especially by those looking for immortality, "power" or sorcery from the teachings) but there is also enough useful information to keep me busy for a long time. Lao Tzu and Gautama Buddha have helped millions (without talking much about aliens) for thousands of years after all. The Buddha said that we shouldn't worry about the universe until we understand ourselves. How can a sick mind heal itself? How can you wash off blood with blood? Anyone who understands themselves will be led to return and help everyone else, since no one is really free if anyone else is enslaved in ignorance; the Bodhisattva vow. Like I said, you seem to mean well and it seems like that is what you want, so forgive me if I take exception to Falungong and its founder. I can agree to disagree.

My favourite monasteries were Wu Tang Shan in China, and Hsiang Te in Taiwan. The Jade Buddha temple in Shanghai wasn't too shabby, either. The monks there generated an impressive amount of energy. No ego, no parlour tricks, they just plainly wished everyone well, and that feeling imbued the place.

So, it isn't personality, it is technique that I am interested in. Can they walk the walk as well as talk the talk? Does the person have the ability to forgo personal self-interest for a greater good? Li has said that his technique isn't for restoring health, thus taking away one of the best safeguards that the technique is beneficial. T'ai Chi Ch'uan, done correctly, is one of the best things one can do for one's health. Once one is healthy, one will have much more energy to devote to spiritual pursuits. Again, this is just my opinion (informed by fifteen years of teaching T'ai Chi for the Wu family) but from watching Falungong exercises I can't see that they have the structure necessary to improve health significantly, much less move spiritual energy. They really look for all the world like misunderstood motions taken half-baked from other systems, kind of like how the Taoist T'ai Chi Society or Reiki practitioners look to me when they do whatever it is they think they are doing.

Cheers!