Has anyone heard of Falun Dafa???

We disagree. All I can say is I think Mr. Li's movements are very high quality, not like these slow Taiji styles "Taoist" Taijiquan with invented theories about ZHang San Feng and Snakes and Cranes fighting each other lol.

No one can prove definitevely what is the truest system, and if something is a beneficial path fine, whether religous or for health. But I cannot accept the comparison on Falun Gong execises and teachings to "Taoist" Taijiquan or laying on of hands healing etc.

“	Originally Posted By: chief108 can I guess? can I guess? can I guess? can I guess? can I guess? can I guess? yes??? eh....... does it have anything do to with...... eggs??? and bamboo???? yes??? YES?!??!?! Chief108	”

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

“	Originally Posted By: Kilik We disagree. All I can say is I think Mr. Li's movements are very high quality, not like these slow Taiji styles "Taoist" Taijiquan with invented theories about ZHang San Feng and Snakes and Cranes fighting each other lol. No one can prove definitevely what is the truest system, and if something is a beneficial path fine, whether religous or for health. But I cannot accept the comparison on Falun Gong execises and teachings to "Taoist" Taijiquan or laying on of hands healing etc.	”

The pot is calling the kettle black. It is remarkable to me that you can't see that Li Hongzhi probably invented Falungong out of thin air, just like "master" Moy and Usui, too. Typical cult-like behaviour, you are completely uncritical of the "guru" and his mind control, yet you resort to ad hominem attacks on competing groups when arguments fail. He won't name his teachers or their provenance, he uses a mishmash of inaccurate Taoist and Buddhist terminology and talks wildly about alien invasions, levitation and masters in the mountains without offering verifiable examples of any of them and you believe and defend him by restating the very arguments that discredit him. That is another tactic used by cults to deflect valid criticisms of their magical thinking, called projection by psychologists. So, of course you guys seem just like Moy's fraudulent Taoist T'ai Chi Society cult or Usui's "New Age" Reiki cult to me.

There is no argument failing. You are the one who makes proclamations without backing it up with an explanation of what you proclaim. It's plain to see Li Hongzhi is not in the category you're trying to say. This is not an attack on you, but you are seeing that way. What that shows me is that Mr. Li's expertise is threatening to you.

What I can see is that Mr. Li invented nothing out of thin air, he is very good. I do not practice Falun Gong but I can see he is skilled at a high level, unlike most of what you would consider "legit", and second, there really is nothing competing with Falun Gong at this time, it doesn't work that way. Competition is not why people attain the Law.
QUit telling me you are "legit" with your slow moving Taiji. That's not an attack, that's what I can tell and see. I can see that Mr. Li is very good at qigong.

But if you wanna talk about ad hominem

"Li Hongzhi probably invented Falungong out of thin air"- clearly not the case

"just like "master" Moy and Usui, too",- I'm not familiar with them, but I see you are trying to infer. And you're talking ad hominem?

"Typical cult-like behaviour, you are completely uncritical of the "guru" and his mind control"- Falun GOng is in no way a cult. I am quite critical, that is how I know it is a true school, and Mr. Li is very good in his movements. Very good.

"he uses a mishmash of inaccurate Taoist and Buddhist terminology"- for one, this is nonsense. For two, like what? For three, how would you know? For 4, buddhism and Taoism are not part of Falun Gong and have nothing to do with it, so what you say does not make sense? Falun GOng is not part of religions or religous.

"restating the very arguments that discredit him." THere is no argument to discredit Mr. Li. Your arguments seem to be myseriously missing, but you are quick to make proclamations. He was a highly regarded Qigong master in CHina for many years before he left CHina, He is the only one teaching like he is at present

"That is another tactic used by cults to deflect valid criticisms of their magical thinking, called projection by psychologists." - I beleive you were talking about ad hominem? Quit trying to say Mr. Li is a fake "guru" ! His postures are excellent and his teachings complete and verifiable!

" So, of course you guys seem just like Moy's fraudulent Taoist T'ai Chi Society cult or Usui's "New Age" Reiki cult to me",- I disagree and that is not my experience

Most impotantly Falun GOng practitioners are very rational, calm minded, tolerant people.

Really, I don't practice it, and am not trying to sell it. But don't say it's Taoist Tai Chi society or "Taoist" slow style! No Way! I'm not attacking you! You attack Falun Gong's validity, that's fine, but I can see it for myself and people should not be fooled into thinking it isn't advanced level cultivation.

Or, I'll say this, if you learning from WKK books and having problems, I recommend looking into Falun Gong possibly!

First off, an ad hominem attack would be if I were to evade the issue (sound familiar?) and say that Li was an evil person, a wife beater, a sorceror, a criminal or a child molester. I say none of those things. Instead, I say that his discipline doesn't impress me and I don't consider him a real teacher, rather the evidence shows that he is a cult leader and then I repeatedly explain how I come to that conclusion. Since that is the issue we are discussing, Falungong's verifiability, efficacy and integrity, my statements in that regard do not fit the definition of ad hominem. You say it is verifiable, but Li doesn't name his teachers or produce the bodies or spaceships of any aliens. He or his students don't publicly levitate. Where's the verifiability there? I'm not angry or upset, don't worry, I'm actually immensely entertained by what you say because Li hasn't proven anything so far.


Secondly, you seem to think that I am talking about all T'ai Chi when I mention Moy's "Taoist Society." The family T'ai Chi Ch'uan I do is a martial art, and I can demonstrate that immediately to anyone who comes to my classes. No aliens, no levitation; instead, punches, kicks and throws (as well as a full, natural range of motion of balanced stretching and acupressure therapy for you peaceful types!) It isn't pie-in-the-sky spiritual salvation from invading aliens, it is health, meditation and self-defence with a track record going back hundreds of years. Falungong people cannot fight, real T'ai Chi Ch'uan people can, and fight well; barehand and weapons. Not only that, we can prevent falls in seniors and the handicapped, relieve the symptoms of stress and arthritis as well as show people how to breathe more efficiently and open their circulation in rehab classes. For you to say that Falungong is somehow more advanced than what I teach when Falungong people cannot do what I can do, even remotely, is risible. On top of that, you don't even do Falungong? How can it be that good, then, if its defender doesn't even bother? In the martial world, we say an organisation making unsubstantiated claims like that is "holding a feather in a sword fight." How's that for legit?

Cheers!

"Wise men don't need to prove their point. Men who need to prove their point arent wise." - Lao Tzu

"to each his own" - not sure

"All men are brothers" - title of movie

Not that im saying i am wise, i got a ways to go myself.

“	Originally Posted By: yhuangbi ... "All men are brothers" - title of movie Not that im saying i am wise, i got a ways to go myself.	”

So, you're allowed to make a point then?

I wonder if all aliens are brothers?

I have a ways to go too. I always get too argumentative.

This is all sh**

Yes, I'm in a sh**** mood tonight.

All sh**!

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May the force be with y'all.

It's not all sh**.

I would say we have one or two peaches floating around in a bowl of sh**, unfortunately the peaches don't add much to the flavour of the sh**, but the sh** sure does mess up the flavour of the peaches.

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The buck stops here.

Seahorse Arts

Kilik,

i assume when you state wkk you are referring to Grandmaster Wong Kiew Kit, what exactly is your problem with him? And you referred to problems from learning from his books? Have you tried this? And i must state that he strongly recommends one learns from a ChiGong master or at the very least a competent instructor. In my opinion, and i believe his as well (i have read his books, but i definitely dont presume to speak for or represent his views) you can only go so far from books, and in my opinion it is not very far at all. These types of things IMHO have to be learned from someone who has experienced them, heart to heart. Not from a description in a book, a book definitely cannot correct posture, and learning something as seemingly basic as the horsestance (and seemingly is an understatement) from a book would be extremely hard for someone without experience and probably result in blown knees and many other problems.

As for FalunGong correcting problems such as this? Do you not learn FalunGong from books, or from videos over the internet? or if you are forutnate there is a group in your area where there is an instructor (who probably learnt from books and internet too) you can attend a group. Dont get me wrong, i did practise FalunGong for several years, everyday like clockwork, and i can honestly say, there is something to the exercises. I dont know about the levitation or the aliens, but the ChiGong practise is good. And in his defence, i believe Shakyamuni referred to aliens and other worlds in his teachings, i think they were also referred to in Hindu teachings, but i am definitely no expert on any of this. FalunGong definitely takes this to a new level though thats for sure.

I dont think FalunGong is a cult, and i do believe it strives for extremely high virtues Truth Compassion and Forbearance, which those alone (cultivating xingxing i believe it was called) are extremely difficult. but the opinion that it is the only system, and that all other systems are distorted from their original versions and thus no longer effective???

I dont know, it was the exclusionist attitude that turned me away from FalunGong, that and some inconsistencies i started to see regarding involvement in politics. Long story short, i dont think you should be discounting anyone elses systems as not high level as compared to FalunGong, especially if you yourself dont practise it (how would you even know? If you had talked to a practitioner, and they actually were a practitioner they would not tell you very much at all as that is not their way to discuss details with nonpractitioners)

There are many paths to the same goal, 84000 in the Buddhist school alone i think i read somewhere and who knows how many Taoist and other systems.

Out of curiosity, what exactly do you practise if you dont mind me asking?

and real Tai Chi is no slow sissy Taoist art, it is a devastating martial art that promotes spiritual cultivation, and i mean devastating

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It is the Decisions YOU make that determine WHO you are!!!

Li comes to America kicked out of the birth place of polar complete reality, not supported by any traditional school.

Sounds like the puritans coming to America why did they leave there home land. Please look deeply at the trouble this system has caused look at the family stories on all sides the parents,the kids, the very destructive toll it has placed on their lives in china this does not happen if polar complete which means no side effects live and be productive in a society that is not enlightened and fulfill your spiritual path all at once these are not to different things,if one is lacking both are harmed and harm spreads illness on all levels.

America out of ignorance thinks the government of china which at this time happens to be the left, communist is oppressing falun gong but the traditional china is still there under that red flag it is not just the red flag but traditional understanding that opposes falun gong... stay away from falun gong.

“	Originally Posted By: TheRock and real Tai Chi is no slow sissy Taoist art, it is a devastating martial art that promotes spiritual cultivation, and i mean devastating	”

Oh, you mean devastating!

“	Originally Posted By: Kilik I think Mr. Li's movements are very high quality, not like these slow Taiji styles "Taoist" Taijiquan	”

Because ... ?

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"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.