Sitting down or Standing up?

Are there any benefits to standing meditation (zhan zhuang style) over seated? If a person only practiced seated meditation would they be missing out on anything?

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yes - building structure. Does the same thing essentially but standing allows the body to relax deeper.

Whne you sit, the spine is not allowed to go into the slight traction one gets in standing. IT also makes the spine to curve in a different way.

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then why is there so much 'sitting' qiqong on the market? is it the tkd of the infernal world?

standing qigong is for martial use, it develops a natural balance. sitting is more for zen and stuff like that.

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poo poo E too too...

Sorry, thought this was a completely different discussion I would agree with Allan, though you have to consider that sitting is good for the elderly and infirm, or if you're stuck in a chair all day.

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Oh THAT'S how that works!

I prefer standing or laying. Sitting tends to lead to blockage and uncomfortability in the spine and distracts me.

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Sitting meditation is generally performed cross-legged or in the half or full lotus posture. This is an ascetic practise and tends to cut the flow of blood and energy down in the legs through the crossing of the limbs but also the pressure on the behind and backs of the legs. This will exaggerate the flow of energy through the organs and the upperbody.

Standing meditation will have a different effect because the energy can flow right through the whole system.

Ascetic practises like sitting meditation are derived from monks and Yogis who lived in monasteries and were withdrawing from the outside world whereas standing meditations are more for people who are still living and interacting in the real world.

Both of these two techniques are not really Taoist in origin because they are static and Taoist mediation techniques usually emphasize some kind of movement because the essence of the Tao is of change and not stagnation.

T'ai Chi is probably the best example of this because it is a standing moving meditation and the blood and energy is gently encouraged to flow through the entire system without any stagnation or artificial blocking of parts of the body as in sitting.

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if you have to sit - still with a chair so the seat does not put pressure behind the thighs. Knees and feet distance same as standing...

cross leg is not my style.

sitting is good for wheelchair bound practitioners

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i would like to add to this:

sitting in lotus (or half lotus, or "indian-style") does not cut off circulation to the legs, it only feels that way to one who has not practiced this posture. when beginning a sitting practice, one will naturally feel all sorts of sensations, which is one of the reasons for starting with a short session and gradually increasing the length of your session. the same goes for standing practice--when starting a standing practice, one commonly feels shaking in the legs, sore shoulders, etc.

the way to let the qi flow freely is to release tensions in the body where you find them. this is not as easy as it sounds, and we often have many layers of tension that we are not aware of. with practice, our awareness of these tensions increases, and we can deal with them.

standing is normally used for development of whole-body connection and power (this is a very broad term, please do not think that these are the only aims of standing). sitting is generally used for spiritual development (again--an extremely broad term). also, note that there are martial schools that use sitting postures, and spiritual schools that use standing postures--the two are not limited in their focus by any means.

when deciding upon, or beginning, a meditation practice (or qigong or neigong practice), the best thing to do is seek the advice of an instructor that has been down that path you want to explore, and that you can trust to guide you down that path.

thank you for reading.

Thanks guys, some good points. I'm asking because a friend with a pretty advanced (Zen and Yoga) sitting practice is not getting the health and emotional benefits she's looking for. I'm wondering whether to recomend practicing tai chi style standing as well.

“	withdrawing from the outside world	”

That's what I was thinking. A great practice if you have the support of an Ashram or some other buffer. Also a great shield against events but if you want to process those events and release the tension is it so good?

“	cut the flow of blood and energy down in the legs through the crossing of the limbs but also the pressure on the behind and backs of the legs. This will exaggerate the flow of energy through the organs and the upperbody	”

There's certainly some truth in this. These postures pretty much require slight application of the bhandas to hold the spine straight and keep 'lifting'; that locks the energy into upper and lower halves of the body. If you're flexible enough to sit upright in bound lotus then you can close the circuit but otherwise, even with foot bhanda applied, energy flow in the lower body will be less than the upper and some numbness during practice and pins and needles after is likely.

“	standing is normally used for development of whole-body connection and power	”

This is for a thirty-three year old ex dancer who teaches astanga full time. Body connection and power are not an issue - her power to weight ratio is phenominal - even recovering from ilness. It's the less tangible benefits she doesn't seem to be getting and I'm thinking standing work may be the way forward.

I'm aware of the contradiction involved in some one with a practice so much aimed at detachment being concerned with health and emotional state. I'm also aware of all the problems involved in advising your teacher in one discipline to try something you learned in another.

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Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you
High mountains are a feeling
I don't need to sell my soul, he's already in me

perhaps the very mindset of looking for health and emotional benefits is what's preventing her from obtaining said benefits.....

“	Originally Posted By: qiphlow perhaps the very mindset of looking for health and emotional benefits is what's preventing her from obtaining said benefits.....	”

I'd have to agree.

While I cannot speak for all who do sitting meditation - I can say that for myself (and many others) that zazen meditation is done precisely because I am not withdrawing from the world. Sitting zazen is just a part of an entire practice - zazen is best when done at all times. It's about being mindful and aware of now.

Discomfort in sitting meditation can be mitigated somewhat by the use of cushions (google zafu and zabuton) my wife uses a "smile cushion" sort of a moon shaped pillow - works great to reduce the numbness of early practice. With experience - the bad sensations go away - like qiphlow posted.

Also - try variations of the lotus (Burmese posture, kneeling, etc.) a good teacher should be able to show other ways to sit.

I also do TCQ and various standing Qi Gong - everything in moderation.

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“	Standing or walking, sitting or lying down, during all these waking hours, let him establish mindfulness of good will, which men call the highest state! -Buddha	”

Chief108

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all hail Martyr Fakka

“	perhaps the very mindset of looking for health and emotional benefits	”

Part of me can't help agreeing with Kerouac - "that's not zen, that's just mean". Possibly true, though. I doubt you do as many years Iyengar as she's done and don't recognise when you're grasping but maybe. When it comes to Zen she has a good teacher and when it comes to yoga meditation she is a good teacher.

“	zazen meditation is done precisely because I am not withdrawing from the world	”

I was thinking of intense yogic meditation which usually involves long periods away from the world sitting for 8 hours a day and a severly reduced food intake. Every one I've met who's done this sort of stuff has found they couldn't face the world afterwards until they'd readjusted. The world is not a nice place to be deeply feeling a oneness with all other people. All I know about zen is they sometimes use handy wooden mini-benches for seated practice.

“	Discomfort in sitting meditation can be mitigated somewhat by the use of cushions	”

Or yoga blocks, or leaning back against the wall. I think Allen made a good point though, no matter what you do the spine will not release the same way.

“	try variations of the lotus	”

Well, most western knees are not going to do the lotus properly (so you can bind with your spine straight) so most of us are limited to unbound variations.

“	I also do TCQ and various standing Qi Gong - everything in moderation	”

That seems to be the answer.

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Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you
High mountains are a feeling
I don't need to sell my soul, he's already in me

“	Originally Posted By: john100 Part of me can't help agreeing with Kerouac - "that's not zen, that's just mean". Possibly true, though. I doubt you do as many years Iyengar as she's done and don't recognise when you're grasping but maybe. When it comes to Zen she has a good teacher and when it comes to yoga meditation she is a good teacher.	”

It's essential to have a good teacher, I'm glad to hear it. The one thought I had was that zazen is not really a practice for physical health per se - it's more... well spiritual isn't right but it's close enough. I was agreeing with the expectation - you don't ask a rock to moo. Not sure if that's mean or not...

“	Originally Posted By: john100 I was thinking of intense yogic meditation which usually involves long periods away from the world sitting for 8 hours a day and a severly reduced food intake. Every one I've met who's done this sort of stuff has found they couldn't face the world afterwards until they'd readjusted.	”

I'm only familiar with sesshin - the "zen retreat". There is a re-adjustment period - but once again - it ultimately helps more than it deters.

“	Originally Posted By: john100 The world is not a nice place to be deeply feeling a oneness with all other people.	”

It seems that way.... but that is more of an illusion than reality - living zen reveals this.

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"Learning is for seeking the Way; what is the use of learning otherwise?" - Master Zhu