Let's list bad exercices!

Everybody studying a style using Qi is aware that a wrong practice can have an opposite effect, and injure health. What's worst is that a wrong practise effects are often be discovered when it is too late (it is the "drop of water" effect, a little bit every time…). Maybe we could share our different experiences, and warn each others of wrong ways of training. So what are the bad Qi exercices

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jing qi shen wei ben, shou jiao yan wei gen

Let's summarize:

- hitting your bones with anything

- trying to actively transfer it into anything it doesn't go from alone

- trying to do anything non-passive with it

Accept this or not. If not, we talk again in ten years.

[trying to actively transfer it into anything it doesn't go from alone ]

Sorry Nick, but I did not get this one, what do you mean by that

Hard to explain. You can get energy travelling where it likes to do that. It tries to hinder you if you do that into an endpoint not matching constructive or managing circles. As you can try to get anything by "concentration" or will to do what you desire, also if that is killing or destroying yourself, it requires patience and inspiration to get in touch with the inside feelings that know how to work with these powers. It is then more a question for help for outside goals, not will to immediately induce inside changes. The difference is that will is constructing pressure that will have effects, and can only stop by using a cycle of destruction to resolve this power, while a wish does nothing but to ask. If it cannot be resolved, it doesn't do anything, also nothing harmful. Will can destroy you completely if constructing more pressure than you can hold and cycle constructively.
So, you can learn to induce energy circulation for beneficial goals. It will manage itself from alone. However, if you gain the control with active thinking, you HAVE to control it, and nobody will ever be able to manage something that complex as this flowing in a myriad of channels.

So, I somehow have energetic cycling, but not through "doing" it every day with active "staring" into body and creating feelings here and there to fantastize I am really doing that. With some luck, your body ignores your thoughts and tries to "interprete" it in a healthy manner. Not everyone is that lucky. As this active growing is just fantasy and it is still that same inner thinking that has to do this, you can simply forget about doing that fantasy stuff and not "guiding" yourself energies to your hands, dantien, blabla. If it is needed to do so, inner thinking will do this from alone whenever you give yourself the free time to learn how to cooperate with this inner thinking.

Now, you still can do "internal" stuff for learning to use powers. However, it is in the sense of true inner or outer mind still an outside thing you do. You want to have "pressure" power in the fingers, now internal will can add strong internal forces to do that. If you try to do that immediately, you cannot know how good you do this and which effects you have to consider BEFORE you can do this. Inner mind does. So, I do "inner" work for outside goals, like throwing a ball with internal power. If I do that in "sync" with inside mind, it works also the internal, but not under my control. So I save myself from irritating or damaging things I not even know about.

Right on Nik

[This message has been edited by Shaolin Shi (edited March 24, 2000).]

I notice quite often that new students in the school don't relax enough. Especially in the internal arts with strong explosiveness one can harm themselves quickly if they aren't relaxed properly.
I also notice people just watching upper belts and trying to practice the exercises they are being taught before they are being taught themselves. I think one should wait until they can achieve great talent with the material they have and the master will let them know when to move on to higher things.
I also think that it necessary to watch out for over repitition with some techniques, (I have empty punches in mind right of hand). As I think if you do lots night after night, you can cause possible joint damage.

I don't know, what do you guys think

Thank you all for your answers!

Sorry for my late reply but I sort of forgot about this topic.

I can briefly list two things:

Air in the upper chest: your upper chest should be totally empty most of the times. It is harmful to always have air in the upper chest, since it is puling up your internal organs instead of protecting them. In other words try to avoid as much as possible an empty stomach for a full chest.

Standing postures alone. I guess most of you practice this kind of meditating standing posture: legs a little bit bent, eyes closed and hands close to the down dantian, or something close to it. It is supposed to develop, among other things, the rooting. This practice is in itself good, but it has to be followed by some "moving" practice (like a set of whatever taiji by example). During this practice both legs constantly bear the body weight and do not relax at any time as they may do when one switch his weight when in motion. This causes the Qi to flow slower then usual in this part of the body. It is then best to reactivate the flow by doing some "moving" practice after. Otherwise, after a long practice, and as age goes you may get some knees problems.

I was told to rub the knees afterwards and hop a little bit around from one foot to the other, and rubbing or clapping the hands together. Perhaps you should do also general things like swinging the arms, touch your toes, and like stuff to get "alive" again.

Some of you present chi training as being possibly very detrimental to the practitioner's health. Considering that chi seems to be such an elusive concept, being hard to explain and relatively misunderstood, and that the harmful effects can take a long time to surface (or so I have read), is it really worth the risk

It sounds soooo easy to perform chi training incorrectly and the end result being a slow and painful death or illness due to organ failure. Is it really this dangerous and if so why take the chance considering very few people have even a clue as to what they are doing

That's a very good question, did2_didnot.


Are the benefits so good they are worth the risks

Only two more posts . . .

'till I get the fabled GREEN BELT!!!

YES!!!!!

(sorry for the posts just to gain rank. what can I say. I'm shallow.)

Well, did2_didnot, it is very simple, it is not necessary or desirable to do anything that dangerous willingly. I don't know when, or why this knowledge has vanished, but originally, you would have first only meditated and practiced qigong without "guiding", so you couldn't f_ck up the whole system. It lets the inner mind, able to guide on his own, awake, and get more involved into all decisions, and ideas. So, you only might have to calm down and relax emotionally, and that "inner" mind can take initiative and resolve emotional or bodily problems through its IMMEDIATE interface to processes of body and mind.
These "high level" interferences, of which the qi "magic" consists, are part of NORMAL activities of some rather intelligent deep layer of being, while, they are NOT part of other, surface level conscious emotions. It would take a lot of time learning in that "surface" what other levels already know very good, so, intelligent people (sorry folks) of old times never did that "dangerous" stuff.
Together with this emotional "growing-together" of deep, medium and surface emotions, "strange" abilities appear of understanding the depth of other people, just from looking at them, or listening. It makes possible to let them learn how you yourself care for trouble, so they learn over some partially conscious interaction what someone likes them doing.
This is regarding "high" level abilities of letting one's soul do things instead of consciously.

The other one, the simple qigong stretching and breathing is NOT dangerous in the sense, it does only physiotherapeutical influence. It is enough to let someone learn to basically follow some recipy, breathing in the right moment, to touch in the right amount, and follow instructions in a not too lazy manner.

The sequence of first doing bodily procedures, that ease up internal flows, then meditate and let the inner intelligence add skills to ones immediate intentions, guaranttes that one gets skills only if necessary, and in a way mind cannot insist on for the wrong intentions. Lets say, you learn, because of wanting to help people, to transfer your inner energy into people. It is bound to wanting to help, so as long as you want to help, and like its feelings, you will get the energy to do it. Everything you have to do is to want to help someone, and if he needs your energy, it will trigger the ability to move it. Consciously, it is near to impossible, because you cannot know what exactly, and how much you do. It is the reason why failure to "concentrate" on SOMETHING can lead to disturb a lot of own processes. Lets, for example, say you have not enough power yourself, or need to acumulate it for some big task you plan for yourself. Even if you are full of compassion, and like to help, it would not make energy getting transfer, maybe just feel sorry for not being able to help. Another reason might be, that in many, if not most of the problems, it is not lack of energy people suffer from, it is doing the wrong things with their own. Letting them stop cures it.

So, it is not "a dangerous" task to grow in owns skills, and strengthes, it is a destructive activity to pull all and everything into conscious considerations, out of fear, ones inner mind does not exist, or wants to do the wrong decisions. Whatever came from that impuls in humans, it was never some good procedure.

Just think of the possibility, that some exercises where made by "intuitive" people, for someone special, with a need to do something like this for the next months. It would be no help if someone else does the same, or longer than originally advised.

By the way, "internal fighting" use of some of such reflexes, and ressources, have most sure been a byproduct and partial field of the whole, learning to listen to ones soul.

Thanks Nik!