chi developing exercises

“	Would it be more to my advantage to stop doing such exercises as small and large heavenly circle	”

in the thread specifically on Microcsomic Orbit, Nik writes:

“	I have the suspicion this was originally a DESCRIPTION of what happens ... [on the flow of qi along this path] all you have to do to get most of it is just to do slow moving stuff to make the channels easy, and to work on tensions using simple qigong methods ... after all the factors slowing down its natural flow and distribution have got removed from the physical effect, the flow re-establishes as in best fashion	”

This is good advice. Slow, simple practice will always do the job, naturally and in its own time. This is what Nik alludes to. The thing to notice is that, even just doing very simple basic exercises without the envolvement of the intention (Yi), one is still practicsing an exercise. There are many approaches to QiGong exercises, and how much one should go in any direction. One might be asked to follow the movement of the Qi to develop better awareness (adhere to "neither encourage nor ignore"). This is using the Yi.

Some people advocate very stong intentions and "blasting through your blockages" (quote from a western teacher). This ... hhmm, how can I put this ... is potentialy disasterous and damaging.


I suspect that Nik and I will differ slightly here - not that a line needs to be drawn, but where and how to draw it. I believe that if one practises slowly, carefully, under proper supervision, patiently, then and only then may one start to use techniques involving intention as long as there is no forcing whatsoever. Actually, I suspect that Nik will agree to the broad sweep of this. The real question is, is it possible, in all honesty, to consistently practise in this manner For many people, the answer is always no. For some, it may be possible once the begginning levels have been passed and the mind quieted.

If one gets anxious when practicsing (perhaps you can feel a blockage and it does not seem to want to move) or impatient (you think the blockage might move if it were just given a little push harder) ... then then I would advise steering clear of using the intention in practise. Maybe, with a teacher present, you may be able to do so, but if you know yourself and do not trust yourself to practise rightly, do not practise these methods.


In summary: begginners should not leep into these types of practice, after that, it becomes a judgement under advice from your teacher and with due honesty about yourself. Only you and your teacher know where you are.

RT

I certainly didn't mean to call anyone stupid, and when I said "obviously" I was refering to my own lack of knowledge. I apologize if I am orny.
Nik is quite right , but Rob brings up a good point,
This is what I meant on the Kundalini conversation when I say it can make people crazy, While a normal person will not need to worry about shutting down because they havent probably brought anything out all that gnarly, someone who dives a little deeper with out the understanding can get into a lot of trouble.
Although I still don't think on a medical level you can get sick from open pores, certainly, bad things can get in if you open certain things (mentally) and leave them that way. But on a normal level which is what many people operate on, your body will naturally close up of its own accord over some time. you have to be involved in some fairly serious exercises to neccessitate such precaution. However I would agree with Rob in a sense that it is an important part of the excersise to complete it, and not leave everything out in the spacey zone. I think this is mostly impatience, and undisciplined behavior. The closing of any excersise is just as important as the rest of it for good reason.

__________________
I'm a Loner Dotty, a Rebel

Shouting tiger,

I meant this passage:

"This is trivial and naive. A more sensitive reading of what I had written and some thought would have led to the obvious realisation that ..."

If you disturb things, you "have to repair", if you don't, you don't.


Fuzzy:

Just do quiet meditation sitting or standing with no mind (thoughts and feelings may or may not occur, accept if it makes you stop and you need to worry), long enough, starting with half an hour every day, and the circles WILL open, enabling all powers attached to them from alone. Then you need time to instinctively feel what you need to go for, and how to let yourself do it. I can do so many things, the problem for me is to get over the time where I am driven so much to overpower instead of going along with the needs of someone, using the right power to the right moment. The consequence of some "channels" enabling the contact to another mind would be that you might overpower or disturb them, because you have too much aggressions not handled. This results in some part of you shutting down systems to the point where you cannot anymore do anything, to yourself or to someone. It takes more time to handle frustrations, fear, pain and aggressions, than it takes to learn to slam down another ones feelings once you reach a point where others are open like a door for you to walk into them. Learning to knock to this door even if you could kick it out of the angles might take its time. The bodily jing channels have nothing to do, other than sharing the same emotions, with these abilities, and there is no need to ever force around on that body distribution of chemicals, in no case when doing qigong, for helping that distribution.

For you, as you already have done a lot of things, your body knows what can be done, so, sit down, and wait what your body or soul start to do when you give yourself time but do nothing on purpose. Something WILL happen, as your soul has a lot more ideas on how to heal you further than already achieved.

Rob and Nik:
Thank you both for the good information. I value both of you and your ability to share insights. As my teacher has me do small heavenly circle exercises with him while in class a few times a month, are you advising against this
Thank You

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I would have to be there to see what you are really doing, so I can only tell that usually there is not so strong necessity to do that, because in the long sight, the body mind does better alone, with one enjoying and being glad what it does.
It's like this, you sit down, enjoying letting body mind do what it can do now to go for a good state, and whatever is good for now will get started. Letting body mind take over is a rather important ability. This is when you are full on rage or pride, and want to kick that 2.20m 140 Kilo superheavyweight boxer, and suddenly something takes over and lets you run away - same thing for good selfhealing issues.

Nik -

“	"This is trivial and naive. A more sensitive reading of what I had written and some thought would have led to the obvious realisation that ..."	”

I'm afraid I stand by the sentiment of what I wrote there - I have a strong objection to someone disagreeing with something that I have written when:
#1 the point of disagreement is something that I have not actually said
#2 it is worded in a certain, shall we say "combative", manner

a strong sentiment brings out strong wording I'm affraid. Obviously ( ) I have no objection with questions about what is written, or sensitively worded objections/ disagreement (whether valid or not). Quite simply, it is insulting to have someone say: "this is wrong, dodgy example, ironic comment, sneer." I may have responded in kind. I probably shouldn't have done. However, experience has shown that if one tries to continue in a softly softly give the benefit of the doubt way, then points one and two above continue through subsequent replies.

All I can say is that I very much enjoy the posts on this board when knowledge is shared and gently disputed - confrontational arguments are distasteful to me.


Fuzzy -
carrying on practice ... firstly, if you are doing this under the supervision of a teacher, you would probably want to discuss your worries with them (certainly before deciding one way or another - this is a simple matter of respect). Secondly, if you trust your teacher and they are suitibly skilled and willing to take responsibility for your practice, their advice should be valued highly. Thirdly (in agreement with Nik) the only people really able to comment on this are those that are there. Fourthly (and in slight disagreement with Nik) whilst the MC orbit might be a natural process, sometimes these get impeded. Sometimes sensitive practice towards an identified end can be worthwhile. However, the manner in which the practice is carried out is crucial. And as Nik mentions, if you practice something simple like sitting/ standing meditation with empty mind for long enough and consistently enough, everything else will happen naturally anyway.

So, both yes and no - there are just too many variables one way and the other. Not overly helpful I'm afraid

RT

Rob:
Thanks. Your help has been requested and you have responded graciously, I am in debt to you.

__________________
The heart is the same as heaven and earth
visit www.fuzzydragonmartialartssupplies.com