chi developing exercises

Do you feel hot and get ringing or buzzing in your ears while doing these exercises

__________________
The heart is the same as heaven and earth
visit www.fuzzydragonmartialartssupplies.com

Yeah, most people I know of who do these feel heat....when I get done doing a tai chi form I feel like I have been cooked and then put into a sauna....but the ringing in the ears ....thats new to me.

__________________
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.
-Zen proverb

From the pine tree
Learn of the pine tree.
And from the bamboo
of the bamboo
-Basho

Heat - and sweating. As you practise Qigong, you open up the body's meridians and Luo (secondary pathways), and strengthen the wei qi field. This field sits in the exterior tissues just under the surface of the skin, and extends outwards from the physical body. Increased circulation in this area causes the characteristic feelings of "ticking" or static, swelling etc as well as sweating and heat on the surface. This field is also the first barrier between you and the external elements - in otherwords strengthening the wei qi acts as a preventative to disease.
Deeper inside, the transformation of qi mechanisms within and between the organs (which is how TCM views the physioloigcal process such as digestion, circulation, excretion etc) really fire up and have a chance to balance and work through their differences. A deeper sort of heat and throbbing can be felt (after some practice) coming from the dantian and mingmen (dantian at the front, mingmen pretty much opposite it at the back). Mingmen is described as the kidney fire - quite understandably.

Warning here - not properly finishing off your QiGong practise means that your external is still open and the movement of wei-qi has not settled down. Physiologicaly, your pores are still open ans the blood circulation is still coming to the surface of the skin through the capilliaries. This can lead to increased risk pf catching disease through invasion of external pathogens (in this case particularly cold, wind and damp)



Ringing in the ears:
off the top of my head - commonly associated with the Gall Bladder meridian (also, through yin-yang pairings, the Liver meridian). May also be linked to stomach, small intestine etc.

All of these meridians pass very close to/ through the ear, or end up/ start from there. Ear problems (such as tinnitus) are often manifestations of patterns in these organs. for example, a common point for treating relevent tinnitus types is St-1. It would be an interesting one to treat with needles though - it lies right under the eyeball in the orbital socket!
In this case, this is probably due to increased flow along the meridians (I would guess GB), and does not represent anything to worry about. The body is quite clever in that if you give iot the chance to work through its' own problems, it will do so naturally, and restore balance where there is disharmony. The problem is not to interfere!
Find a diagram of the GB meridian (and all the others, plus info on point dynamice etc) here:
http://www.acuxo.com/meridianPicture...Gall%20Bladder


RT

Thank You

Rob T. could the fact that I had severe damage to my head in 1994, Shattered jaw, shattered cheek bone, broken nose, shattered right eye orbit,forehead was broken in 3 or 4 places along with missing all the teeth on right side and tongue ripped in half be the cause I am very well healed and have a prosthetic eye.
PS
Damage caused from a 9mm black talon hollow point.

__________________
The heart is the same as heaven and earth
visit www.fuzzydragonmartialartssupplies.com

Fuzzy - I must admit that I am unclear what the effect of major penetrative trauma on the meridians' pathways would be. If someone takes a big knock, it is quite easy to feel what the meridians are doing (normally qi and blood stagnation, agrevated qi, sweling, pressure, blockage of usual flow along the meridian). If the meridian was sliced across down to the bone, we can expect considerable dissruption. However, if we look at amputees, and the existence of phantom pains in the amputated limb (well documented), this is evidence for there still being an energetic connection through the space usually occupied by the limb. Presumably the pains would be caused by disrruption in the flow due to the non-existence of the limb (the pain is different from that associated with the site of amputation - it is likely to appear someway down the limb. For example, in amputation below the elbow, phantom pains can be felt in the fingers)

So, I guess we can say that the meridians are disturbed but not destroyed by such trauma. From this we get that they are separate from the physical structure, but integrally connected with it (perhaps picking up on the idea "the qi follows the yi, and the blood follows the qi").

Injuries such as you have received are going to have a big effect on the body as a whole (I guess you already know that!). If the ringing is on one side and not the other, it would be easier to draw conclusions about its relationshil to previous injuries. If you have healed well, I see no reason why the meridians should not be also well restored. Just as an aside, individual points may move due to trauma - for example the development of scar tissue may mean that the classical location and neddling depth need to be amended, or even the point avoided altogether if it's energetic action has been modified by the injury. However, the meridian pathway - well I think the jury's still out on exactly what the pathways are. I would have thougt that whilst individual poijts can shift from person to person and with injury, the basic patterns of flow of qi along meridians remain largely the same.

I guess what I'm saying is that this ringing could be caused by the meridian re-establishing itself, the absence of flow in the meridian, or the absence of the meridian, all due to the injury. However, I would think it more probable that this is just a natural balancing of qi flow and rectifying of disharmony.

For example, if we build in previous history of illness, we might use the fact, say, that the liver and gall-bladder are related as a yin-yang pair. A disharmony in the one channel/ organ would often show in the other. Thus a history of liver disease (such as HepC for example) would likely be reflected on the gall-bladder meridian. An often used treatment paradigm is to use the connecting and transporting points associated with a meridian. The connecting points are points which connect from the meridian in question to its yin-yang pair, and will be found on its pair. The transporting points are found on a variety of meridians over the trunk and back. the back transporting points are all on the bladder meridian. These are often treated for chronic pathology in one of the meridians and may also be used to help diagnose.

Further more, let us take another condition which is somewhat puzleing in cause. MS, from the westen perspective, has

“	Etiology (Immunologic, epidemiologic, and genetic factors): Unknown. Immune-mediated inflammatory demyelination .	”

from the TCM perspective the following is commonly agreed upon (though, as with any TCM discussion of western terminology, one condition may have a variety of patterns and causes, plus the issue that MS is not very well understood in any field of medicine):

“	TCM theorizes the origin of MS to be an invasion of External Pathogenic Factors such as Dampness (which affects the Spleen and muscles) in patients with a weak Spleen Zang, or a deficiency in the Liver and Kidney Zang (which affects the tendons and bones, and are thought to play a role in the function of the nervous system.	”

the above are quoted from relevent websites. Again we might expect to see yin-yang conection through to the GB meridian.

Whatever ( ) the cause, gentle QiGong methods (or more powerful specific methods if prescribed by a suitable authority) can significantly impact any imbalance that is present. I'd have thought that this ringing is a manifestation of this process. Other people feel a similar thing on the upper lip when practicing certain sorts of standing postures where the arms are held in position. These exercises would benefit the Large Intestine meridian, which just so happens to run, for part of its route, along the upper lip.

Keep on with the exercises - whatever the underlying cause (as I say, whilst I have a view, I would not claim for it to be gaurenteed), it is extermely unlikely to be unbeneficial. All the best

RT

Thank You

__________________
The heart is the same as heaven and earth
visit www.fuzzydragonmartialartssupplies.com

Rob, good post, but some things to think about;
Having your pores open DOES NOT increase risk of infection, neither does increase blood circulation.
If it did I would get sick every time I take a bath, go jogging, or exercise in any form. In addition, Saunas would be hotbeds of death and disease were this true.
This just isnt true.
Also increase in chi flow does not necessarily cause the increse in the outer layer, protective shield, in fact for this to happen, Reverse breathing is necessary. To bring chi to the extremities only reverse breathing works. But is not related to why you sweat.
This is according to all I have read on Shaoling Chi Gong. I read most of it in Shaolin white crane chi gong.

__________________
I'm a Loner Dotty, a Rebel

Shouting Tiger - I will keep this brief.

You write from experience with one system, and say that increased periperhal blood circulation and open pores does not increase the incidence of disease. You cite saunas etc. This is trivial and naive. A more sensitive reading of what I had written and some thought would have led to the obvious realisation that after a sauna, the pores close and the blood withdraws from the capilliaries due to the decreased air temperature. This is an entirely natural process, and it has the effect of protecting the body from external pathogenic factors. When the body is warm and the air is cold, the body seeks to insulate itself from damaging environmental factors. When the air is hot, the blood comes to the surface and the pores open in order to cool the body. The result is that the core body temperature stays within a remarkably narrow range. Failing to properly close after QiGong leaves the external open in a way that will take some time to close (and indeed, can continue to "leak"). While the external is open, and you walk out into the cold, and remain there, the exterior remains open (the natural mechanism has been taken over by the increased qi-flow) and external pathogenic factors (cold, wind, danmp in TCM remember) can easily invade.

This is based on experience (I have treated occurences of this as a medical QiGong student), and TCM theory (acupuncture and QiGong texts, the necessity to resolve the exterior when it is open, the ability of certain points, and increased wei qi in particular to open the exterior).

Your Shaolin system may say that qi only reaches the surface of the body when using reverse breathing. Daoist systems would say that qi is always at the surface of the body, and is always moving. Any proper QiGong practice will increase the activity of qi in general, and hence as there is already qi in the exterior, of qi in the exterior. True, reverse breathing may be more powerful for doing this (depending on mehtod), but to say that it is the only way is manifestly false. Japanese acupuncture practitioners are renowned for very shallow insertion (as opposed to modern Chinese practise which advocates deep insertion and strong stimulation). Yet the Japanese system remains very effective.


I am tired of having what i can only assume are deliberately contrary readings of my posts bandied around in an attempt to prove that the contrary individual has some deeper understanding or extra knowledge that goes against what i have written. This is not to say that I am always right - where I am incorrect somebody please amend, but do so sensitively and with at least some attempt to see exactly what it is that I am really saying. A surface reading, and subsequent criticsm, is inevitably shallow, needless, and ill-informed. Why ill-informed Because one does not become informed by this sort of needless nit-picking.

Unless the message actually attempts to engage in mature debate, I do not intend to respond to any further reply by Shouting Tiger. I do not see the point

RT

RobT
You are right.
Everyone please take note of what a fool I am.
Mistakingly I tried to show that I had a deeper understanding of the material than rob by being contrary, as he stated.
That was my only motivation, and I was acting purely through ego when I corrected him.

__________________
I'm a Loner Dotty, a Rebel

Can anyone explain to me the difference between the Daoists and the Shaolin
I was under the impression that the Shaolin were Daoist buddhists.
Perhaps I am misinformed

__________________
I'm a Loner Dotty, a Rebel

You cant come on here and expect someone to explain the few thousand years of history that could express the differences between two immensely detailed and convoluted religions/systems. There just aint enough room on the page matey !

Try going to the library and READING some complete texts, you will gain a deeper and more satisfying understanding than from someones brief synopsis on the web.

“	Arg !	”

__________________
SHJ

I was being sarcastic, and a little ornry.
There is no difference between the Taoists and the shaolin, as far as beliefs go , the shaolin learned Taoism from one of the best, Bodhidarma, one of the most celebrated Taoists of all time. Although I am not aware of techniques other than reverse breathing for bringing Chi to surface, as ROb pointed out that doesnt mean they don't exist. I made that statement because Rob said that the Taoists have other methods, but I was infering that more specificity was needed as the Shaolin are taoists. So a smaller subgroup perhaps is neccessary. I still don't know what he was talking about, obviously, or I wouldnt have made the comment to begin with.
When you say "the Taoists" you can be talking about quite a few people. I just didn't know which ones he meant.

__________________
I'm a Loner Dotty, a Rebel

Well, please do not call each other stupid for some discrepancy in understanding. Also, almost nothing is so obvious that talking "you obviously ..." should happen.

Taoism and buddhism shares a lot of values, in old times, but sometimes seems to be very different in concrete. Although I would attribute this to a strange understanding of buddhism from buddhist, but, how can I tell them .

There always has been lots of exchange of all tat schools, still Taoism is not prone to have so many RULES buddhism has.
Boddhidarma definetly was no taoist, but an indian buddhist.

Finally, I also do not subscribe to the tons of automatic considerations some people think Qigong involves. I see no problem with state of skin, much more I see the problem in the f_cking around on the immune system many people do with their "concentration" on "feelings" they have no idea what they are communicating with, while pretending they are doing this and that and what not sort of circeling. I don't do that. I don't get ever ill even if a lazarett of influenza shaken half-dead people lie around me. I have that circulation from inside because I don't interfere it, but empty meditate almost all the time. All you have to do is to leave all that inner steering to the taiji and you're guaranteed to get on the trail upwards. If you don't lead the flow where it doesn't want, all that problems of having to "shut down" this and that do not appear. The sort of qigong involving a lot of steering came from power greedy and anxious people. Stay with non-concentrating simple moving, breathing and sitting meditation qigong, and you don't have to deal with the trouble of that times failures.

“	. If you don't lead the flow where it doesn't want, all that problems of having to "shut down" this and that do not appear. The sort of qigong involving a lot of steering came from power greedy and anxious people. Stay with non-concentrating simple moving, breathing and sitting meditation qigong, and you don't have to deal with the trouble of that times failures.	”

Would certainly agree with this. However, even in simple "empty mind" sitting meditation, you still end the practice in a way designed to restore you back into the "normal" world. If you are using different methods, if this restoration is not properly carried out, more severe side effects may follow. However, that is not to say that simple meditation does not require a proper ending practice. I have met too many "out of it" people (and , incidentaly, the whole area of eastern meditative practices has to deal with the bad perception that these people bring) - these people spend all of their time in a sort of half way state, which is neither empty mind, nor "normal life". It is quasi-practice taught by quasi-masters with quasi-understanding.

RT

Nik and Rob:
Would it be more to my advantage to stop doing such exercises as small and large heavenly circle

__________________
The heart is the same as heaven and earth
visit www.fuzzydragonmartialartssupplies.com