Spinal Elongation

**jawsman** · #16 (**permalink**) September 30th, 2006, 09:27 PM

“	Originally Posted By: fuzzy30 Maybe also mention tongue placement. With Respect Jeff (fuzzy30)	”

Roof of mouth.

Martial76 · #17 (**permalink**) October 1st, 2006, 02:57 AM

“	Originally Posted By: john100 How much do you flatten your lumbar curve in this one? I'm beginning to find a common base to all my practice and if I want to be able to breath into the kidneys and feel the breath rolling up and down the spine I need to leave something of the natural curve in the lumbar even while extending the spine.	”

not sure if this will actually answer your question but, you obviously have to roll the hips up under you (groin rolled up) this obviously decreases the natural lumbar curve... however for kidney breathing.... while the small of the back is pressed up flat to a wall.... it will give you contact on the kidney area... so it helps on focus on that area, because you can use your breath to "push" against the wall... so I would say that it is a mixed blessing as far as that goes.

“	Originally Posted By: jawsman Roof of mouth.	”

thank you sir! yeah tounge to the roof of the mouth on the inhale! I just didn't put it in because I didn't want it to be a novel... besides the connecting of the governing and functional meridians and the circulation of the micro-cosmic orbit is not just another thread... its an entire library!

john100 · #18 (**permalink**) October 1st, 2006, 05:36 AM

“	you obviously have to roll the hips up under you (groin rolled up) this obviously decreases the natural lumbar curve...	”

Yeah, it's that rolling of the hips and flattening that causes all the controversy among people who go into incredible detail on this stuff

I've found a method and distance I'm comfortable with now, but don't know how well I could describe it.

Martial76 · #19 (**permalink**) October 1st, 2006, 12:09 PM

“	Originally Posted By: john100 Yeah, it's that rolling of the hips and flattening that causes all the controversy among people who go into incredible detail on this stuff I've found a method and distance I'm comfortable with now, but don't know how well I could describe it.	”

have you ever heard of Mantak Chia (spelling) he is the founder of Healing Tao center?

you can check him out here...
http://www.universal-tao.com/master_chia.html

he has SEVERAL books published... not sure that I agree with everything he says, but he does make some very good points in his books (of the 10 that I have read)... he talks about this very subject exstensively in his books... if you haven't ever read his stuff.. I would say see what you think, I would recomend his iron shirt chi kung book... however it is like the 5th in his series, but I have no doubt that you would follow his thought... any way, he higly promotes the rolling of the hips, stating that with out this the spine can never truely be strait... and there for the full connection between the positive and negative won't be functioning at full capacity....

anyway, just thought I would throw him out there... he is one of my favorite authors... he breaks things down quite well, easy to read (as easy as this sort of stuff can be) and actually goes out of his way to give scientific expalnations where ever he can.

JABB_KYD · #20 (**permalink**) October 2nd, 2006, 01:04 PM

“	Originally Posted By: fuzzy30 ..."With feet shoulder width apart, place one palm over your naval… cover that hand with the other...",it depends on the sex of the participant as to what hand touches the naval and the cover hand. Maybe also mention tongue placement. With Respect Jeff (fuzzy30)	”

Hands: Left hand for men, right for women.
Tongue: As mentioned, roof of mouth

john100 · #21 (**permalink**) October 3rd, 2006, 04:28 AM

“	Mantak Chia	”

Not heard of him specifically, I'll look out his books. Thanks, always interested in this stuff.

I understand the arguments for full "flattening", espescially for practices labelled "taoist" - not just from a theoretical viewpoint but also from a practice one. Partly it's also just down to how low you sink. The lower you sink the more you naturally flatten to avoid pinching the hip joint and lumbar.

The argument from the other side is that you have a curve in your spine naturally, you can apply traction with it curved, the tailbone is naturally tucked and the lower abdomen naturally rolled up and to exagerate that is likely to produce sacral problems... probably best described as below (by a yoga teacher I'm quoting without consent but hoping she won't mind given the aim is to help people practice)

"the tail bone is never tucked under or anything other than relaxed BUT with a sense of musculare firmness or engaging of the Mulha Bandha and lower abdomen in Uddiyana Bandha.

If you google an image of the spine you will see very clearly that the coccyx positioned right at the end of the curvature of the sacrum already has the effect of being "tucked" - and this is in its relaxed natural position! So there is no need to emhasize "tucking any more". To tuck any more wold impact the lumbar curve, flattening it, and then all curves of the spine would then be impacted. So that's it said and done. The firming of the pelvis is muscular and related more, in my opinion to the pelvic diaphragm with the contraction and "lifting" of the perineum, which is a primary stabiliser of the pelvic girdle and also of the "relaxed" tailbone."

Martial76 · #22 (**permalink**) October 3rd, 2006, 09:39 AM

“	Originally Posted By: john100 Not heard of him specifically, I'll look out his books. Thanks, always interested in this stuff. I understand the arguments for full "flattening", espescially for practices labelled "taoist" - not just from a theoretical viewpoint but also from a practice one. Partly it's also just down to how low you sink. The lower you sink the more you naturally flatten to avoid pinching the hip joint and lumbar. The argument from the other side is that you have a curve in your spine naturally, you can apply traction with it curved, the tailbone is naturally tucked and the lower abdomen naturally rolled up and to exagerate that is likely to produce sacral problems... probably best described as below (by a yoga teacher I'm quoting without consent but hoping she won't mind given the aim is to help people practice) "the tail bone is never tucked under or anything other than relaxed BUT with a sense of musculare firmness or engaging of the Mulha Bandha and lower abdomen in Uddiyana Bandha. If you google an image of the spine you will see very clearly that the coccyx positioned right at the end of the curvature of the sacrum already has the effect of being "tucked" - and this is in its relaxed natural position! So there is no need to emhasize "tucking any more". To tuck any more wold impact the lumbar curve, flattening it, and then all curves of the spine would then be impacted. So that's it said and done. The firming of the pelvis is muscular and related more, in my opinion to the pelvic diaphragm with the contraction and "lifting" of the perineum, which is a primary stabiliser of the pelvic girdle and also of the "relaxed" tailbone."	”

Mantak Chia is a good author... I think that you will enjoy his books, Yeah... I understand what you are saying, and I have heard / read this argument before... in my style, we definently focus on rolling the hips under your self, several of the chi kung postures that I have learned do this also... for me personally, I believe that it helps with rooting and power generation... but everyone has thier own methods... Mantak does go into great detail about this though... lays out some well thought out points! think he has like 15 books or something, for sure give iron shirt chi kung, and transforming stress into vitality a read... some of his other books are far more esoteric than these.... but its worth a read if you get a chance!