A few chi question

I didn't say I did not "accept" the ATP thing. I said YOU, or anyone else standing there in the rain with no hat, CANNOT prove it right from the start. Without a lengthy series of chemical experiments it is IMPOSSIBLE, and you would need to look for the right thing with TONS of previous knowledge.

If you want to have a serious research on Qi, you need to take the HISTORICAL descriptions, not your own fantasy of how Wilhelm Soandsos ideas could mean "the same". The same as what ? Their own plain idea created out of nothing it "must" mean current ? So if it is current, how the **** can anyone say "our science did not isolate this huhuh, this huhu, cheeee" ? Science doesn't know of electricity ? Nice try, folks. Better luck next time.

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"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.

“	Originally Posted By: Wingnut there are some riechian researchers that claim to be able to record orgone levels in a scientific manner orgone and chi to me are the same	”

Wingnut, I met a guy a few years ago that I think was Riechian also. He had me look at the sky in an unfocused manner and asked what I was. I saw these little things flying all throughout the air. I think? he said those were orgones.
I only met the guy once and have always wondered about that day. Can you see orgones in the sky?
-aaradia

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I must not fear.Fear is the mind-killer.Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration.I will face my fear.I will permit it to pass over me & through me.& when it has gone I will turn to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.Only I will remain.F.Herbert

“	Originally Posted By: Sleeping Turtle these sort of things always go in circles. What would satisfy the questioner as proof? Is that going to be the same for everyone? I don't think so. We are fed on scientific and pseudo-scientific accounts of what proof would look like, but most of the time we are not even looking for the right things. T	”

I want to see you shoot flaming red, no, blue, no no, Pearlescence fireballs out of your nostrils while hovering upside down and youre hands tied behind your back. That might convince me...

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"-when you yourself know that a thing is good, that it is not blamable, that it is praised by the wise and when practiced and observed that it leads to happiness, then follow that thing.”

And this has WHAT to do with Qi, Jing, Shen ? Just asking ...

__________________
"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.

“	tests have been done to show its effect	”

The same has been done with "chi". It's all just models to describe experience. The "proof" of the model is in its effect on the experience - if you follow it do you acheive the desired experience or not.

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Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you
High mountains are a feeling
I don't need to sell my soul, he's already in me

“	Originally Posted By: Nik And this has WHAT to do with Qi, Jing, Shen ? Just asking ...	”

He was answering the question as to what would satisfy him as proof of chi.
Personally, I would have said 10' long pointy feet

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Oh THAT'S how that works!

“	Originally Posted By: Mei Hua He was answering the question as to what would satisfy him as proof of chi. Personally, I would have said 10' long pointy feet	”

, What ever happeh to the fun times,

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"-when you yourself know that a thing is good, that it is not blamable, that it is praised by the wise and when practiced and observed that it leads to happiness, then follow that thing.”

“	Originally Posted By: openmind , What ever happeh to the fun times,	”

LMAO!
Someone got it, what ever happehed to that crazy loon I wonder?

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Oh THAT'S how that works!

nik : "If you want to have a serious research on Qi, you need to take the HISTORICAL descriptions, not your own fantasy of how Wilhelm Soandsos ideas could mean "the same". The same as what ? Their own plain idea created out of nothing it "must" mean current ? So if it is current, how the **** can anyone say "our science did not isolate this huhuh, this huhu, cheeee" ? Science doesn't know of electricity ? Nice try, folks. Better luck next time."

wow that struck a cord

science does know about the electric charge

and so do you

if you dont belive in its existance then stick your tongue into a mains socket

my own experiences and researches tell me that orgone/chi/prana

are isomorphic

dont really care if you beleive that you or some historical monk are the only people who understand it

aard : "Can you see orgones in the sky?"

there is a skool of thought that there are orgone creatures that live in the sky

i dont personally agree with this

orgone is a primal energy

it exists in the sky as well as in you

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"...any theory that satisfies the facts demands assumptions which are completely absurd."

Aleister Crowley

Understanding analogies is such a difficult thing.

First, someone, with no knowledge on what originally was named and declared Qi, says "I think it's electricity. It must be bioelectricity."

Then with no logical conclusion "Science never has proven the existance of Qi!".

So, if neglecting that already the first assumption is not founded in ANYTHING, the second strikes as complete nonsense. IF Qi is "bioelectricity", THEN science knows of the existance of Qi since electricity is pretty well documented, no ? Simple logic.

IF it isn't then you don't even know what you would have to look for in science. "Science hasn't proven the existance of Zoof" would be exactly as meaningful. You don't even know what Zoof is, same way as me, so WHAT are you going to read up to see wether anyone ever researched that ?

If we would assume for a short moment that "Qi" is a description for phenomens people spotted in human beings on being treated with "something", which might or might not be related to the biochemical, neurological or physical make up of a human body, then you would have a LOT of stuff to read up and compare with CONCRETE descriptions of "Qi". And not with your own speculation of what "Qi" "surely" "must" mean. A plain look in charts shows that meridians resemble lymph pathways. Duh! Science for sure never heard of lymph, let alone of lymph channels with gill structures that control the flow of lymph, or the ~300,000 active chemical components of which as far as I read some years ago only ~3,000 have been identified with a concrete function.

__________________
"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.

if it walks like a duck

looks like a duck

sounds like a duck

hangs out with ducks

chances are its a duck

quack quack

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"...any theory that satisfies the facts demands assumptions which are completely absurd."

Aleister Crowley

I have to disagree. Zoof has definetly never been disproven by any scientific study.

__________________
"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.

meridians eh?

http://www.gorhams.dk/html/the_lymphatic_system.html

you could just as easily say they resemble any other circulatory system

http://www.worldinvisible.com/apolog...y/bloodcir.htm

or

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/7172.html


always brings a smile to my face when you say that the qi merdians resemble the lymphatic system

quack

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"...any theory that satisfies the facts demands assumptions which are completely absurd."

Aleister Crowley

There are definitions and descriptions that comply with the lymph system and not with the blood one. Blood does not get pumped up the spine, lymph does. Now where come orgones into the thing, and what about orgone flow charts, or say "bioelectric" flow charts that have the electricity get pumped up inside the spine ? BTW, there are different categories of Qi which have different systems. One for example closely resembles a medical description of how the body controls the emission of adrenalin. Another interesting observation is that for some masters like Ma Jiangbao, when they do stuff that is said to control the "qi flow", their skin and fingertips swell. I'm sure that is a obvious sign of electricity at work, if not orgones.

__________________
"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.

see

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/7172.html

for simplified electric flow through the body

the first thing you may notice its that the spine is the biggest conduit for electrical information in the whole body !

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"...any theory that satisfies the facts demands assumptions which are completely absurd."

Aleister Crowley