A few chi question

“	Originally Posted By: openmind , What ever happeh to the fun times,	”

Hanging out with "Johnny Rockets"??? hmmm

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I must not fear.Fear is the mind-killer.Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration.I will face my fear.I will permit it to pass over me & through me.& when it has gone I will turn to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.Only I will remain.F.Herbert

It CANNOT be electrical current on the nerves since we all know what happens when you put electrical current on a nerve. I would venture a guess that this is NOT how it feels when you do some sort of qigong and that tingling starts. Of course, you would have to do any sort of qigong to know, especially the moving one. I now leave the speculation to those people who do not do any version of qigong and have never read anything that describes Qi stuff what Qi really must be. Some people can live with there always being a resemblance with normal medical stuff that our medicine already knows is going on in the body, just using other words, for some people it must be that mysterious 77th energy of the universe, so they can either claim that it is "not found by science", or attribute any mysterious ability they like to it. I experienced qigong results, and developed jing skills up to a level of serious fajin, and I know that there is "something" going on in the body that always feels the same, and also has this pesky similarity to other normal body stuff like feeling pain, hunger, or other stuff that has a bodily feeling. Without the need of "knowing" which chee is going on when I pulled an arm out of a socket. BTW there is a good amount of electrical "phenomens" happening with some exercises, but not as cheap as "it's ONLY electricity". There is not "just electricity" that makes a muscle contract.

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"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.

i agree

but there is more to the electrical functions of the body than is known at present

bones using piezo-electric phenomena to maintain structure

possible electro/magneto rheological action of synovial fluid during limb loading

changes in skin resistivity

at present it is thought that it is the electrostatic charge between muscle protiens that do indeed make muscles contract

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"...any theory that satisfies the facts demands assumptions which are completely absurd."

Aleister Crowley

And I thought there were these N- and PO-based chemical components that get consumed in the process ... I remind you that the occurance of a phenomen does not say anything if it is the cause or the result of "something". I venture a good guess that this "qi" concept groups EVERYTHING the chinese observed back then with no analytical equipment, into "agent groups". Any of them would translate to some biochemical, physical process. The underlying energy donator should be chemical-based, otherwise we would go into the sun, or recharge on a transformator, instead of eating. Up to now, we spend considerable time doing the latter, on a more-than-daily frequency.

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"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.

well one of the accepted hypotheses of muscular contraction goes like this

the muscle fibres receive a nerve signal

which causes them to release calcium ions

which in the presence of ATP bond electrostatically (magnetically)

the ends of the myosin and actin filaments (springy proteins that make up muscles)

and acts to draw them closer together

hence contraction

when the nerve signal ceases the elastic quailities of the filaments

pull them back into place

this is known as huxley's sliding filament theory

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"...any theory that satisfies the facts demands assumptions which are completely absurd."

Aleister Crowley

meant to thank you nik

this has made me think more about qi and its possible biological links

than i have for ages

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"...any theory that satisfies the facts demands assumptions which are completely absurd."

Aleister Crowley

Well, in the context of jin, I like to add a few ideas or observations.

First, maybe the most interesting, when I had a certain state of that "tingling" being there most of the time, I was leaning against a bar desk, and that tingling stream was coming out at a point of the spine in the lower back. EACH time this happened, the spine made a bump making me bump off the desk. It looked as if the pressure from the leaning caused the stimulation so the "bump" would generate, while that streaming was present.

Second, when the fajins occured, there was initially short before it happened some feeling in the chest, on the other hand it could be emotional. Then the streaming tingling set in, and the same time the muscle would pull with a LOT more power than normal, and feeling kind of "irresistible". That means, the timing of the movement is the same wether someone hangs to my arm or not. I just move the limb, and when something is attached to it, it gets drawn with the movement like nothing, with the tingling getting stronger the higher the load would be. With a very strong load, the muscle heads would start to ake from the tearing impact to their bone attachment. But still the contraction goes on with extreme amounts of tingling, as if water would stream out of the location or into. I was wondering if that is a mechanism of creating a controlled flow to create an additional "sucking" that either works mechanically or reduces friction, or pulls in some reservoir of chemicals that usually get used up quickly, and then with this flowing reach the muscle for a much longer time than normal when it's just used in the amount locally stored at the muscle.

At times, I also notice when the tingling comes back, that I have my urin smell heavily like N-based ammonium components, completely other than normal. I don't know how large amounts of adrenalin related waste would smell, and what they would be. There are times my muscles are filled up with "something" that results in strong itching when I try to message that feeling out of them. I read that such strong itching happens when adrenalin permeates out of the cells. There are also white spots on the skin then.

Oh, and the "tingling" creates REAL pressure, since the fingernails turn white when that happens on the fingers. The skin tissue also fills up then as if soaking with liquid, the skin and flesh appears thicker. For guys like Ma Jiangbao, MUCH thicker, their fingers turn into drumsticks. Whatever my body was doing with the liquids, when that process started, I got 10-15 kilos heavier in just like 10 weeks, without eating any different, and without that being fat. I also lost that weight much too quickly at times, for it being anything else than mostly water or liquids.

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"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.

interesting

the tingling seems to imply an increased electrostatic field

which could be from an increase in internal pressure due to increased local chemical storage ?

that bulking up 10 -15 kgs and dropping again tho

?

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"...any theory that satisfies the facts demands assumptions which are completely absurd."

Aleister Crowley

“	Originally Posted By: aaradia Hanging out with "Johnny Rockets"??? hmmm	”

.I almost forgot about good ol' johnny.......well, who could forget..

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"-when you yourself know that a thing is good, that it is not blamable, that it is praised by the wise and when practiced and observed that it leads to happiness, then follow that thing.”

funny thing, this chi debate - for me it's a bit like asking "does the back of my head exist, i dunno cos i've never seen it"

chi doesn't just flow about inside the body, we also radiate fields of varying intensity and frequency

about 15 years ago i started looking into this kinda idea, having originally come from a mindset that believed we as human beings are only four dimensional, that our entirety inhabits spacetime, believing the illusory appearance that we seem to be separate solid entities

however, my experience has illustrated that this is a very limiting view of our selves - my experiences, that some people might choose to label as spiritual (which i used to, but no longer see them in that context) tie in with cutting edge quantum field research - the physicists are well beyond the newtonian world view these days, but most of the population are a couple hundred years behind

we exist multidimensionally, having bio-electrical fields that extend beyond (and are in different frequency ranges to) our so called "physical" bodies (of course, when you start looking into some of the modern quantum research, you realise that there is no such thing as a solid physical thing - solidity does not exist, it's an illusion - atoms are not solid things hanging about in spacetime, they are fluid and multidimensional)

the difficult thing about learning to appreciate, to become sensitive towards, to consciously interact with our bio electrical fields is that the apparatus we must use is ourselves, our own perceptions, and we are generally clouded

the biggest distraction we have is our internal narrative - to cease, or at least reduce, the internal narrative is a step towards being able to directly be aware of and interact with our biomagnetic fields - we are all subconsciously aware of them, we cannot turn that off, but we can ignore and suppress our conscious awareness - indeed, in our western society we are taught, sometimes directly, more often indirectly, to do this from childhood

so how did i become aware of our multidimensional nature? i started to learn how to interact with our field-nature - becoming attuned to reiki (japanese for universal life force energy) healing systems and working with it hundreds of times, learning to use my own personal instrument of perception - me! interacting with the fields of other people many many times, getting feedback from these people, comparing their experiences of the interactions with my own was a good starting point, and led to a body of experience, my personal proof of our truer nature

the understandings cause changes and the changes facilitate understandings

however, i can't prove it to anyone else, it's not my place, we have to prove it to ourselves - that's the point imho

approaching these experiences with an experimental scientific mindset, with no fixed beliefs either way was an important way to go about things, i believe

the reality i now inhabit is very much different to my reality of 20 years ago

it makes me laugh and feel sad at the same time when i read debates like this over the existence of chi, ki, prana, orgone, life force energy - for me the existance of life force energy is as obvious as the air we breath, an intrinsic part of my life - i interact with people's subtle energy bodies everytime i interact with someone - our fields interact - think of two stars shining light towards each other and the light waves interacting, causing interference patterns - sometimes these patterns are harmonic, sometimes they are inharmonic - harmonic, we feel we like someone, inharmonic, we feel that we don't like someone - etc

of course there is no way to force someone to this insight - people only open their perceptions when they are ready, not before, not after, in their own time - i can at times help some people a little along in their understandings but they've gotta be seeking understanding motivated by their own desire before that can happen

“	Originally Posted By: Metadog of course there is no way to force someone to this insight - people only open their perceptions when they are ready, not before, not after, in their own time -	”

And of course, you could be wrong.

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Wolfgang says:

I could think of a million better things to do in Japan for a month besides jumping off of picnic tables. - x893

“	Originally Posted By: Unkotare And of course, you could be wrong.	”

lol - nah, not about this, you can be sure

i've been very careful not to lead myself down the garden path

if some practise or perception yields practical results then for me it's worth expanding on - if not then it's a waste of time

that's the number one rule that i stick to

scientific methodology

“	Originally Posted By: Metadog lol - nah, not about this, you can be sure	”

No, I can't.

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Wolfgang says:

I could think of a million better things to do in Japan for a month besides jumping off of picnic tables. - x893

“	Originally Posted By: Unkotare No, I can't.	”

lol

there we have the rub

i can be sure, as i've had the experiences

you can't be sure, as you haven't had the experiences

there is no way for me to convince you that i'm not talkin bollox, all i can do is communicate my experiences with my assurances that i'm not making things up

although you're already convinced that i talk bollox about other things, so it's quite easy for you to label this post as something else you disagree with me on

do some research and have some experiences yourself and you may just gradually convince yourself of your field nature - it'll be a gradual process if it takes place at all - that's the only way you'll come to this insight

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The question is if you find appropriate words to express your experience, and if you drew the right conclusions - or not.

And then, everyone else cannot be sure if you are plain telling bollox without being there in person watching you, or having identical experiences.

BTW, there simply isn't anything that has "qi" written in yellow letters allover it. It's a term that was brought up back then from people for "something". Now you can hope you understand what is the "something" they were talking about, and that it has ONE root cause. Otherwise it is just a model, like Newtonian physics, of which we KNOW it's wrong. It's just good enough to calculate in most everyday instances, within certain borders (i.e. velocities <10% lightspeed). If you associate certain resources that EXIST in the body with "qi", then, it gets real. You are talking about something real. However, other people might talk about a completely different thing, a hypothetical "energy" that can do everything, and more. Or they assciate "every energy of every system known to man" with qi, and then of course speak about something completely different.

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"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.