A few chi question

“	Originally Posted By: Metadog lol there we have the rub i can be sure, as i've had the experiences you can't be sure, as you haven't had the experiences there is no way for me to convince you that i'm not talkin bollox, all i can do is communicate my experiences with my assurances that i'm not making things up although you're already convinced that i talk bollox about other things, so it's quite easy for you to label this post as something else you disagree with me on do some research and have some experiences yourself and you may just gradually convince yourself of your field nature - it'll be a gradual process if it takes place at all - that's the only way you'll come to this insight	”

Oh, brother...

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Wolfgang says:

I could think of a million better things to do in Japan for a month besides jumping off of picnic tables. - x893

“	Originally Posted By: Unkotare Oh, brother...	”

ah, now we're getting somewhere

yes, brother, you are my brother

it'd be great if you could either contribute useful input to this debate, or keep your snidey remarks to yourself

thank you

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“	Originally Posted By: Nik The question is if you find appropriate words to express your experience, and if you drew the right conclusions - or not. And then, everyone else cannot be sure if you are plain telling bollox without being there in person watching you, or having identical experiences. BTW, there simply isn't anything that has "qi" written in yellow letters allover it. It's a term that was brought up back then from people for "something". Now you can hope you understand what is the "something" they were talking about, and that it has ONE root cause. Otherwise it is just a model, like Newtonian physics, of which we KNOW it's wrong. It's just good enough to calculate in most everyday instances, within certain borders (i.e. velocities <10% lightspeed). If you associate certain resources that EXIST in the body with "qi", then, it gets real. You are talking about something real. However, other people might talk about a completely different thing, a hypothetical "energy" that can do everything, and more. Or they assciate "every energy of every system known to man" with qi, and then of course speak about something completely different.	”

i try to avoid firm conclusions as they tend to trap one

the universe isn't firm so my conclusions must be fluid, dynamic, part of a path towards self understanding, which will never be complete

yes, the newtonian model is limited, i'm quite aware of this, and tried to say that in my previous post, which is why the quantum model has been developed and i'm sure further models will be developed

part of the point i'm trying to make is that we are not beings that follow the newtonian model, although this is what seemed to be the case when we first looked at the tip of the iceberg - we are closer to the quantum model, and have aspects of ourselves that are non local

this idea of us being localised separate beings is incomplete, only part of the picture - parts of our being are not located in the spacetime continuum

have you heard of morphogenetic field theory? the idea that memory is not located in the brain, that the brain is a holographic tranceiver? check some of these ideas out - they seem to be the way forward in consciousness research

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“	Originally Posted By: Metadog it'd be great if you could either contribute useful input to this debate, or keep your snidey remarks to yourself thank you	”

If you are going to post such....intangible...positions you can't very well take offense when they are commented upon.

I'll certainly try to refrain from hurting your feelings personally, but when you start posting stuff about chi and proclaiming certainty about it, you'd best be prepared for a certain degree of skepticism at the very least.

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Wolfgang says:

I could think of a million better things to do in Japan for a month besides jumping off of picnic tables. - x893

“	Originally Posted By: Unkotare If you are going to post such....intangible...positions you can't very well take offense when they are commented upon. I'll certainly try to refrain from hurting your feelings personally, but when you start posting stuff about chi and proclaiming certainty about it, you'd best be prepared for a certain degree of skepticism at the very least.	”

i can deal with input like ur above post - thanks for some whole sentences!

i guess what does wind me up (although i shouldn't let it!) is peoples' instant dismissal of anything outside of their realm of experience

some people talk even more far out hippysh*t than me, things that i used to ridicule, but i've had to learn not to be so dismissive, as i can see people doing to me what i used to do to some proper space cadets - most people i know consider me to be quite a space cadet, which i generally accept with good humour, as it's usually a consideration made with good humour

scepticism is my base attitude - i am a total sceptic, it takes a lot to "prove" anything to me - although i still have doubts or several ideas as to what exactly i've experienced, i have had literally hundreds of direct non local interactions with people, working with their energy fields to bring about changes in their health as they perceive it - if whatever i was doing was ineffective, then i'd have given it up as a bad job, a dead end, years ago, and people would have let me know that i'd been ineffective

the thing is, i have had many people tell me how i've helped them without even physically touching them - working with someone's energy field, feeling energies change at certain times in the workings, having people tell me how they felt things change in a similar way at the same time - many times - one incident like this could be taken as nothing, coincidence, trippin on bull, but hundreds of incidents add up to paint a bigger picture

don't worry, i'm very much used to having a different view of life and what it is to be human to most people that i encounter - your reaction is typical, and i've had to grow to accept that people see things according to their experiences, which are largely different to my own - i went out of my way to try to find out if there was any truth in the ramblings of hippies and mystics, thinking that if there was nothing to it then i'd soon find out and could go back to my newtonian world model with my curiosity satisfied - the other possibility that i had to consider was that there was something to the mystical ramblings, and that if there was, i owed it to myself to discover just what i was missing out on

my sceptical attitude was what kept me from believing any old thing with no proof - thing is, we are our own instruments of perception, we can only really prove the subtler things in life to ourselves - and it's so important to be careful, taking small steps, not leaps and bounds, remaining calm about one's findings, rather than getting all excited and hot headed, jumping to excessive conclusions, as one could so easily do when exploring these realms

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that`s cool.