Jing - Qi - SHen Transformation

Alrighty,
I am looking to discuss in detail with some people who know about the transformation of jing to qi to shen. Nitty gritty detailed stuff (I hope) as I am trying to get a real handle on this process. I have been told that some of the sets I do will cause the transformation to take place, and had others tell me there are specific methods to have the process happen. I need some practical and real info about this process.
For those that don't know any about the three treasures here, a small bit o info:

Jing - the vital and base life essence of the body, the most concrete of the energies discussed in this thread. In men it is semen and women menses blood. The Jing is (when trained properly and stored) refined into a higher vibrational energy known as Qi.

Qi - I think we all have a pretty good handle on this one. Vital life force. When refined long enough it transforms into shen.


Shen - The spirit energy (for lack of a better translation) the mind and wisdom mind are run on shen. It is understanding and knowledge of the unknown and etheric. As well as general mind health energy and such. Some say meditation is a direct training of the shen. (Which is something I want to discuss as well).

Now I am planning to discuss what I have been taught in detail as wanted, but would like to open the floor for others to chime in and add some detail.
How do you initiate the process of jing transformation, how to build jing?
What about the 100 days of celibacy thing? (I got some QUESTIONS about this one........)

Thanks for your answers everyone.

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"If you meet Buddha on the road, Kill him."

Okay, it was my understanding that jing was energy, as in fa jing (explosive energy) which is different from chi (eternal energy). Now there are ways to use the two in conjunction with each other.

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Mark R.

Qi leads to Jing leads to Shen.

From my understanding, one must have a clean mind/body/way of living in order to help the process to take place,

Certain Qi Gong sets do aid in this process, but it also requires certain forms of meditation in conjecture

Well Mei, you and I are out of luck then as much as we drink.....LOL.

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Mark R.

“	Originally Posted By: Jade_Dragon_03 Well Mei, you and I are out of luck then as much as we drink.....LOL.	”

LMAO

I gave up ever trying some time ago

“	Originally Posted By: eight fist Qi - I think we all have a pretty good handle on this one.	”

Not likely. In my experience, the martial arts population doesnt really understand very well what qi is, and how it acts as a symbolic tool for understanding the human landscape.

If one was to follow the other, essence is the foundation for qi and shen, and essence and qi tend to determine the shen, which is really simply put just ones state of mind, psychological spirit. But like rock/paper/scissors, a strong shen, helps maintain the direction of essence, and shen and essence are rooted in qi. That is, they are somewhat disjoint from one another, and work in conglomeration with the other "textures", blood and fluid to create a full landscape of "material".

Ultimately, I feel the point here is to stay away from the hand-waving, gravy-train: In a nutshell, eat well, maintain healthy habits, lifestyle mentally and physically, train hard, do not overindulge, keep in shape, do your qigong, maybe use some tonic herbs therapeutically, and listen to your body.

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PlumDragon Herbs: Dit Da Jow and Iron Palm Liniments

"When a handshake passes the elbow, it becomes Judo."

I think besides going for a calm mind that does not overtly promote violence, you couldn't do more than doing good qigong and slow moving stuff, without forcing anything. Eventually, it will start, and go on from alone.

__________________
"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.

Now what we had heard so far is very similar to what I was taught. Eat well, live healthy, meditate for a clean and strong mind and the process begins. But I would like to address some other points/questions....
First of all jing as in Fajing from my understanding is another character. I know in mandarin faJING is actually faJIN. Pronunciation, translation and dialect issues I think. But I am pretty sure they are two different words.

Now I agree that meditation builds shen or spirit/mind power. This keeps one on the stable path and a clear mind.

From what my Shifu said you must have jing to build qi and their is a trickle down process that when doing (for instance) meditation the shen will help to build and refine the qi and jing until the 'resevoir' of jing is full. Then proceeds to help build qi. Qigong acts in the same way trickling down to build jing until 'full' and then proceeding to fill dantien with reserve qi (which is subject to the refining process). The shen then will be built on this foundation through more qigong, healthly habits and meditation on top of these full resevoirs. Although there are different exercises for each. Diet and abstanance for building jing, qigong for building qi and meditation for building shen. In this way you have the triple treat in your training and while the trickle down effect takes place there is always some left in each reservoirhealthilyreservoirsabstinencereservoir form the training process.
To ask a more direct question now what about the 100 days of abstinence to build jing theory? I know some people on here have done it. What results? I have attempted it twice and got terribly ill. Fevers, nausea, vomiting, headaches - a whole bunch of yang disorders. Now what I am wondering is should I tough it out or require some herbs and medicine to keep the body balanced while the yang builds? Perhaps special qigong or meditation practices?

Now I agree a great deal with plums post but am trying to look at this from not only a "practical" point of view but an esoteric one involving the taoist/Buddhist immortality/enlightenment theories. Any more input would be of great help. I will respond with more of what I learned from Shifu about the process soon, just looking for more input.I love to cross reference my training with other knowledgeable people for the sake of understanding... any more ideas? Experiences? etc?

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"If you meet Buddha on the road, Kill him."

In vedic terms qi - prana is living energy or life forse energy, ojus or jing would be stored energy. the dan tien or lower center is where it is stored and called up when additional energy is needed (fight or flight) being the common need though it can be developed to call it at will ie. as a martial artists or a healer would do.
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There are many concepts on development yoga has some, there are some other non-asian concepts as well but they all tend to be a combination of specfic drills and meditations and healthy living etc...

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If the road that you are on brought you here then what good is the road?

eight fist, not a lot of time to type right now, but wanted to start addressing some things in your posts:

“	Originally Posted By: eight fist From what my Shifu said you must have jing to build qi.	”

Jing and qi are 2 of the bodies "textures". From a Chinese perspective, when you are conceived, your parents' intrinsic human properties are fused and when you are born, you have certain preset amounts of jing and qi, which arefor lac of a better word, inherited from yoru parents. This is set, and theres nothing you can do to change it--it is genetics, and determines, in large part, how you will develop and age, how much energy you will have, etc etc etc.

Then, there are post-natal forms of these things, which are produced from our body processing the food we eat and the air we breathe--this is where the cycle begins. Qigong, in my mind, is more of a process of familiarizing your body with itself, and learning how to direct these energies, and may have some effect on metabloic processes that aid in the processing of incoming nutrients needed to produce these things.

“	To ask a more direct question now what about the 100 days of abstinence to build jing theory? I know some people on here have done it. What results? I have attempted it twice and got terribly ill. Fevers, nausea, vomiting, headaches - a whole bunch of yang disorders. Now what I am wondering is should I tough it out or require some herbs and medicine to keep the body balanced while the yang builds? Perhaps special qigong or meditation practices?	”

Why do you want to do this? Unless there is some specific reason, I dont think its the best idea. The body should be a well-oiled machine, and while overindulgence isnt any good, a consistent "flow", is necessary so as not to become stagnant. Ive even seen studies that claimed that men who ejaculated very seldomly had lower testosterone levels and much higher risk of prostate problems. The Chinese agree, and the Nei Jing even sets forth a healthy frequency of ejaculation at various ages.

Ive performed this sort of thing for iron palm training and also done iron palm training neglecting this idea--its almost insurmountable for me to last more than a week or 2 and this could b eimprotant in comparing the differences that other people have with doing this. If you are taxing your body in certain ways, then it can be good to retain jing so as to keep your body working within reasonable parameters. I can definitely feel a difference in iron palm training if Ive abstained for a time versus if I havent and its become more noticeable as Ive continued to get older. But other factors have, in my mind, made a larger difference--for me, sleep is the absolute most paramount piece of this puzzle.

At the end of the day, abstaining isnt necessary unless you are taxing your body so much that you must do something to keep you within operating parameters. If you want to do this sort of thing though, there are herbs that have an astringent effect and can help with retention...

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PlumDragon Herbs: Dit Da Jow and Iron Palm Liniments

"When a handshake passes the elbow, it becomes Judo."

Plum hit on one that few people bring up but is very important and that is sleep. Nature designed the system to rebuild. Most of this is chemical or chemical induced and sleep is the state required for the process. But it’s not so much how much as it is how little it is interrupted and how deep. I would say behind control of the breath this is the next area that should be addressed. From there detox the blood and digestion, then do the meditations and last the drills.

To store ojus is a natural thing we all do it but to increase it and to be abel to bring it out is what takes a lot of dedicated work and understanding.

Where things get seperated is in the translation or belief in Shen and what that really is. To us Shen would be more than just the spiritual being.

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If the road that you are on brought you here then what good is the road?

Jing as in essence and jin as in "river of strength" are two different words. It has a connection, and I prefer not to think much about it. Building jings, as in essences, leads to becoming able to issue strength based skills, that consume it. But, in my instance, my "holy embryo" or inner spirit does it. It even trains the jin skills while I am sitting around, activating their use in my hands, body, tongue, etc.

At first, you need qi, like it begins with. This is naturally resulting out of food intake, congestion, storing, metabolism in general, guided by the little man inside. In fact, your emotions play a LARGE role in that. This is why sitting around, letting the feelings occur and enjoy themselves, initiates those processes. A soul that likes life, planning stuff to achieve, also likes to protect that. You can help that with qigong, and mild workout promoting jin uses, slow moving, MILD stomping, and the likes. However, that would stimulate creating resources for this kind of issue. Others might need other stimulations, so sitting around enough is good.

The jing and shen thing is a result of both the process, and the available intake on the qi side, like mentioned healthy living, eating, sleeping, drinking. With feelings of the deep inside kicking in, this life within will create resources also for abilities you aren't even aware of until it happens. And even then you might not really notice it, other than that "something" happened. In some way that are bodily resources, and in others mental ones.

With those stuff being available, the shen, the emotional side, could develop into making use of it. That are habits, and feelings for what could be done, and which goals you have, that require making use of it.

Regarding the 100 days grace period, if that really causes irritations (and not what you are also doing in that phase - any iron something stuff ?), then just stop when it happens.

__________________
"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.

Now I did stop both times I tried at about 28 days or so. The relief was very quick and within a day I was feeling more 'normal'. I was trying out the process with only my normal routine of training, but I am very interested in this process. I must also comment that when retaining/abstaining my qigong and taiji practice was greatly energized and more profound than normal. That being said after releasing myself from the period of abstinence things returned closer to normal but, better. More energy, vitality and so on. I have been thinking of trying again but want to avoid all the sickness. My best guess is a build up of too much yang fire in the body since it is normally released and the body was having a hard time dealing with it. That being said I agree with the neijing and its calendar or schedule for retaining jing by age. I know if I have too much fun then I feel the result in my training and every day life.
Maybe as you said I Should just do it in stages and retain until issues occur and stop....

The other idea I had was when I tried the last time and I felt the heat coming up in the afternoon I would practice moving the yang down and out through my feet to cool off, sometimes it worked, sometimes not.

I am really getting a lot out of this thread thanks for the help so far.
As far as Iron palm training is this retention used due to the need for the healing process each day?

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"If you meet Buddha on the road, Kill him."

“	Originally Posted By: eight fist As far as Iron palm training is this retention used due to the need for the healing process each day?	”

The short of it is....
The kidneys store the essence and govern growth and development. The kidneys also rule the bone and are responsible for creating and maintaining bone and marrow. This process uses essence in the process. Iron palm training is, in part, aimed at conditioning the bones of the hand. Because these responsibilities of the kidney coincide, one can see where being overly active sexually and sticking to an intensive conditioning program could "overtax" the kidneys. For those who inherited good essence, its not a problem; for others, it is...

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PlumDragon Herbs: Dit Da Jow and Iron Palm Liniments

"When a handshake passes the elbow, it becomes Judo."

Good answer Plum!

So it seems that the overall vibe so far is that the jing qi shen is a much less esoteric thing and rather deals more with a healthy mind, healthy body and healthy lifestyle. The 100 days is only a necessity for intensive training that taxes the body heavily and needs more essence to recharge. Furthermore the building and refining of jing qi and shen come from qigong practice, meditation and things like taiji or other internal arts. Funny this is kind of what I thought originally but without a good reference from other sources I was unable to arrive where I am now. Is there anything else anyone can add as far as this refinement process?

Next I would like to to talk Taoism and the immortality process which deals with multiple stages of jing-qi-shen and Xu... any help?

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"If you meet Buddha on the road, Kill him."