kongjin

Hey guys you have been busy and I have been on vacation. Lots of info. I would rather not know how some things work because once one thinks they know or understand it does not work anymore, ever have that problem It all comes from something, which cannot be named sound familiar. Once you name something the opposite (unknowing) begins. I would rather breath and know I don't know. I'm not putting down any great info here (I love to learn). It's just useless to me. I cannot begin to understand un-knowing. Beyond all boarders true freedom is well beyond this and that (the named) Chaos and confusion can be fun (science) but I will take empty space.

wu- with no disrespect just a question... when did you become the judge of the universe When do you decide the limits you place by judgeing, By judgeing I mean that you set limits and that implys limits in your relation to the universe.

Expansion of the being is a natural process and with that more understanding. There is so much out there you will not learn it all there will be more remaining. Closeing doors to expierence and understanding eliminates first eleminating opportunity and then the new possablities that come with every change and new outcome, and that is destrutive even with the best intentions.
The physical universe is dualic and recognized becasue and by duality, however it is absolute opposition that forms duality. Another question more possabilities, and the gift by life is that you have possabilities and you have the ability to turn those into outcomes.
Movement on the path is this process. You are unique you can generate your on motion through this process beacuse you have choice and that is what makes you different from a rock you can respond and create motion create new which creates your reality a rock can only react to motion and never creates.

I am confused about what is it you don't want to know I am also not to clear about the statement that once you know it doesn't work anymore what are you refering to and when has that happened

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You are not where you have been and you are not where you are going you are only here.

I guess I was being too general. There is no limit to knowledge, to understanding our place within the universe. It seems once one level is achieved there is yet another, sky above the sky. If you close doors and set limits how can you understand. It is not that I don't wont to know some things I don't need to know. To much information. Knowing is doing and doing is knowing. I was actually asking to step beyond limits of our conversation (the knowing) which seems to be placing a limit on you(maybe not) I thought I understood the use of Peng energy at that point I limited myself in small achievement its not that it "didn't work any more" The skill was just not very good. Until I dropped my understand (the knowing) and opened myself to new possibilities did I have a better understanding. I agree we drive the boat not just float down stream if I understand the rock analogy.

ok...in reference to the subject of the last few post I have been discussing some ways to direct healings, it's only scratching the surface of where this subject can go. Applications of priniplas requires understanding what the principals are. The application of any skill requires some basics of the principlas that make that skill possable. I believe that is what the subject is unless I'm missing something.
And yes I agree one subject reveals the next, however that is how possabilites open up, that is motion, that is a process of creativity. You do it every day the day becomes known and through this more possabilites become, if not you would try to stay fixed and even a rock has difficultiy doing that. More skies that is the hope for us that is what we trust, and that is what we have faith in.

"faith is trust in the hope" aqitra teaching

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You are not where you have been and you are not where you are going you are only here.

Cool, an application of kongjin energy we use more commonly is leading force into emptiness. At a spiritual level it can be expanded to removing our selves from harm ect. Healing vibrations seem more powerful emitting than destructive energy for me. My teacher can heal with a touch. We did healing circles as well where no touch was required. On the martial side I'm rooted in the physical realm. I have only a few experiences where I was effective without touch it seemed to influence the out come. The only damage caused to the opponent was maybe mental anxiety, no physical effects. This is where healing energy to me can take of and is manifested in remarkable ways.

Have been away for the weekend ...

"understand how the nerve systems work in the body"
- for a layman - well enough. Kuanti and I had an interesting debate about ions moving across membranes and what constitutes electricity ...

"understand the relationship of alterations of chi that coinside with the flutuatiuons of the pns"
- pns or cns (central nervous system)

"fear"
- causes contraction across a number of fronts. Also introduces "fragility" into the system, sets up barriers internaly and externaly ...


of course, more than one party can be fearful ...

could you expand some more perhaps

RT

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"What can be said at all can be said clearly; and whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent" - Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus

The pns ....., fear goes out through this system and acts as a resistant, as fear calls for energy to respond it drains the reserves from this system or through this system from the organs. One example is a person in sudden fear will not have the energy to maintain control that's why someone may wet their pants in fear.
However calming or even better evading a fear trigger can be a way into the system to project into the spine from the base of the brain and from there use the same system to reach outward from inside. This works well in healing.
for example Friday night we had two events,
The first was a woman who dislocated her shoulder and damaged the joint. She has been in pain and has not been able to get any movement for 10 days dispite the drugs and best efforts of her doctors. This aprach was used and the pain totaly eleimnated and she has full use of the shoulder as if there was no injury. took aboit 15 mins..
The second was useing this method another member was sort of put out, she felt the energy go down her back from her head. The hands were placed only on the head though she was convinced shere was a hand on her lower back (this is typical when the energy goes in a complete cycle), she lost all sence of time, it takes the person into a state where they feel nothing. You could cut them they would not know it. From there energy can reach all the organs and refresh the person. In her case it was to remove the remaining pain and swelling from having her gall bladder out the day before.

Since you can reach into people as you described I am sure you can do this as well. The fear in the mind has a trigger, this must be bypassed to use the same pathways through the PNS to reach most organs.
I't s not the only method but it is a more specfic method which you seam to prefer.

__________________
You are not where you have been and you are not where you are going you are only here.

Are we talking about accessing the endocrine system via the pituitary gland and hypothalumus

The pituitary glad is sometimes refered to as "the master of the endocrine system" and is responsible for the secretion of a number of regulatory hormones:

Eg.
from anterior lobe:
growth hormone
prolactin - to stimulate milk production after giving birth
ACTH (adrenocorticotropic hormone) - to stimulate the adrenal glands
TSH (thyroid-stimulating hormone) - to stimulate the thyroid gland
FSH (follicle-stimulating hormone) - to stimulate the ovaries and testes
LH (luteinizing hormone) - to stimulate the ovaries or testes

it will also be stimulated by the hpothalumus to give the typical "fight or flight" response to fear ...

the glands also have strong relationships/ importance to the sixth chakra (not looked into Indian based-traditions myself), the point YinTang (third eye), and one of the variations of MicroCosmic Orbit.

They are strongly employed in treating disorders with a spiritual or mental-emotional basis ... but at the same time, by acting as a powerful way to change the entire "feel" (Qi pattern/ vibration, call it what you will) of an individual and thus effect the system as a whole.


I have used this sort of point as a strongly calming influence on panicking and stressed (either the usual sort, or the entire system being stressed) - even to inducing a sleep-like state.


I also quite like using one of the points on the foot (K1, "bubbling well", YongQuan) to access the kidneys and the associated systems (MingMen). I once experienced something strange whilst doing this (as regards feeling the kidney fire "start up" in a patient in whom it had "died down") - one could actually feel the thing come up and the effect travel throughout the body. A similar thing was felt by the patient

RT

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"What can be said at all can be said clearly; and whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent" - Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus

yes, we are on the same track and that would be one application, The description you gave is the basics for a lot of healing applications, not really what I am refering to.
what I am refering to is more advanced yet a more simple approach. It does not require so much detail, actually that is part of the key, being specific and detailed often leads to being specific and detailed but not really flowing. Too much mind too little force.

Remeber that fear isonly in the mind, yet it will signal and start the process of fight or flight, the fear warning system is like the perimiter guards that send out the warning of something approaching.
The bypass or elimination of this system opens the gates and gets you in.

Now the ability to project motion (energy chi whatever the term of the week is) still is a major factor however if you have gotten that far, this is a way to get results.
Now this is not the only way however it is very effective.

__________________
You are not where you have been and you are not where you are going you are only here.

If this refers back to something I already mentioned, then it makes a lot of sense.

I have said that I do not consider it to be "me" doing the healing - rather I see my role as helping the body to restore itself.

If this process is a way through the endocrine/ pituitary/ whatever ... then it would enable one to calm the body to a substantial degree - almost like pressing "reset" on teh computer when it is getting itself in a state and freezing/ running slowly, corrupting data or whatever.

It can then resume running under a different and fresh mode - in which things are very differently patterned.

It would thus be a very efficient and powerful way that the body can be prompted to reclaim itself.

Combine this with a little gentle encouragement (never forcing) - and I could see that this is something worth thinking about.

RT

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"What can be said at all can be said clearly; and whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent" - Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus

wow! you guys have been busy!

Wetting yourself due to fear is part of the fight or flight mechanism, i.e. a natural reaction. Its far easier to fight or run with an empty bladder! But given humans amazing control over our bodies this only seen in extreme cases of fear combined with full bladders.

If you reducing swelling and pain in given locations via influencing energies within another. Is it not possible that you yourself are at risk of the patient influencing your energy, and cuasing you harm.

I can understand how such techniques can work very well with the given examples. And I can see why drugs will never replace the action of one person healing another. But out of interest do these techniques work on infectious diseases, ie viral or bacterial If so do you need to know the point of infection, and the cause Could you give some details of some successful treatments

kuanti:

"Is it not possible that you yourself are at risk of the patient influencing your energy, and cuasing you harm."

yes, there is some risk with this - most traditions teach some form of protective exercise, and advise other "cleansing" exercises before and after treatment. Can be as simple as washing hands in water up to the elbow after treatment ... can be more complicated (depending on degree of influence coming back)

if you go about things at the right pace and in the right way, this usually does not happen

"do these techniques work on infectious diseases, ie viral or bacterial"

have had success in cases of post-viral-fatigue syndrome (or chronic-fatigue-syndrome. Call it what you will)

have not experience with anything too infectious - though, yes, it can be used on such things as stomach bugs from dodgy food (trip through malaysia last summer proved this to me)

RT

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"What can be said at all can be said clearly; and whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent" - Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus

robt yes that is only the start, this method allows a way in from there......it just gets better
and remember this is only one way there are others

kun... rapid heart beats short of breath, tight stomach many examples of triggering fight of flight the point is it indicates that energy moves on a path through this system, so this method is like useing a natural road system through the body. Like we do when going through the veins or muscles with energy washes.

can you kill germs with this well with projection yes not this actual method although it does help the body to heal itself
this method is first clearing the mind of the person or removing thoughts then proceeding into the body.

killing organisums is another process, it is much harder to do
needing to know the point of infection and the casue, not sure why you would it would be helpful but if not you can still proceed. Knowing where the infection is yes that helps direct and not waste efforts.

injury is the most common cure illness we have had many cases from measles flus, and very limited cancer (tumors), infected wounds, BUT NOT THE COMMON COLD though we can speed up the healing we have not that we know of cured it. No documented aids cases yet though we have people in remission as well has for hepatitis C. But then we don't do this all the time. It takes years of clear testing to claim success and we have some cases with more than 3 years of no signs but I don't think that is enough time to know for sure.

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You are not where you have been and you are not where you are going you are only here.

back to the original question has anyone else had any events they can share

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You are not where you have been and you are not where you are going you are only here.

“	Originally posted by aqira No documented aids cases yet though we have people in remission as well has for hepatitis C. But then we don't do this all the time.	”

If you can cure one person of AIDS then you'll change the world!
Could you give some more detail on the Hep C stuff