Qigong?

I have written a extensive one regarding kidney and jing corelations. Do a search - perhaps a couple weeks back.

Again JDHsingI is right on - sufficient jing - kidney essense.

You have to have that - that's why a good teacher would advocate 99-101 days of jing buildup and reabsorption - then you proceed.

Nowadays everyone jump right into moving chi.


Recent phenomenon - Chi gong psychosis - a mental condition being treated in lots of mental institutions accross the country from improper chi gong practice.



Jing can be confusing - in mandarin it means two different thing depending on context - here it means the kidney essence or sperm.

It can also mean force as in fa jing.


But in cantonese - it's two diffent word and pronunciation
jing - essence
ging - force

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I really like the 8 pieces of brocade - it's really safe, can be done with other qigong sets without working to counter purposes or causing harm, and is relatively quick and easy (20 min to complete the set) - important to those with full schedules/limited time, allowing for consistent daily practice. It opens the meridians, helps eliminate blockages, promotes good qi flow and really promotes good health. I think it is an excellent qigong set for everyone - beginner to advanced.

I've heard jing translated as essence or vitality; in fact I believe I've discussed this briefly with Allan here. I believe it is different from jing as martial power, which leads to some confusion. I have seen the pinyin for martial power written sometimes as jin, which may help alleviate some confusion between the two chinese words.

I have read and been taught that the body converts essence/vitality (Jing) into energy (Qi), which is then used to nourish the spirit (Shen, sometimes referred to as Yang-Shen). The jing is converted to qi at the false dan tien (The "elixir furnace," or qihai cavity on the conception vessel, located near the navel) which is then stored in the real dan tien (Also called the "jade ring cavity" which is the "second brain" and acts much like a battery, storing qi - energy); one nourishes the spirit, transporting stored qi up the thrusting vessel (Chong Mai, which connects the huiyin - located at the perinnium - to the baihui - located at the crown of the head, running along the spinal cord) to the in the Spirit Valley (Shen Gu) located between the two hemispheres of the brain, the "exit" of which is the upper dan tien (Or third eye located between the eyebrows). When the Shen has been fully cultivated, one "crushes the emptiness," or as Buddhists put it reaches enlightenment. Daoists refer to this as uniting the human spirit with the natural spirit. Daoists see this as breaking free of the reincarnation cycle. The Chinese is Tian Ren He Yi - which I believe literally translates as "heaven, person, harmony, one." Allan please correct this if I have erred!

I agree with jd in that trying to force the issue is pointless; your body will achieve the results naturally if you are practicing correctly. I found that if I followed directions and practiced as I was taught, although I would note some sensations, by never focusing on them or thinking of them as goals, I progressed naturally (I still have much more to go!!). When I did focus on sensations or tried to achieve a specific thing outside of simply doing the qigong as taught, progress slowed or stopped.

One example: doing zhan zhuang, I practiced reverse breathing (Expanding the diaphram on the exhale, contracting on the inhale) until I did so naturally without trying or thinking about it. I eventually noticed that while inhaling, I would feel as though there was an inward condensing type of sensation, and on the exhale there was an expanding/filling up sensation, especially strong at the top of my head, in my palms and at the soles of my feet - in fact sometimes my hands would feel attracted to each other on the inhale and move apart on the exhale! I later connected this sensation in the baihui ("Hundred meetings" at the crown point of the head), laogong ("Work center" in the palms) and yongquan ("Bubbling well" in the soles) as similar to what was described as 5 gate breathing. My body adapted naturally, as my practice improved; I didn't have to try to do it, it just happened. In fact when I focused on these sensations, or tried to replicate them they often stopped and my standing felt relatively empty or incomplete. I certainly wouldn't say I've reached the point where I have "mastered" this qigong, but I have definitely seen some progress.

I don't always have such "success," but I don't worry about it; I simply faithfully continue to practice as I am taught and let what will come, come as it may. To me the most important thing is consistant, daily pratice. I believe that if I continue to do this, I will continue to develop. Forcing the issue has definitely not worked at all.

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Taijisd


The more I know, the less I learn; the more I learn, the less I know.

I agree.

<The Chinese is Tian Ren He Yi - which I believe literally translates as "heaven, person, harmony, one." Allan please correct this if I have erred!>

heaven and man becomming one.

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Could you talk a little more about the Qigong Psychosis

From my Iron Palm training there was a period of 9 weeks where I had a special restricted diet and restricted sexual activity for which to build up Chi for the exercises. It was very frustrating if ya know what I mean!

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I think it might be more accurate to say that celibacy allows the buildup of jing, which is then converted into qi.

Qigong psychosis comes from inexperienced attempts to lead the qi ending up with it trapped in the head and causing psychosis. I'm sure Allan can describe it better than I can. I've heard that one treatment is practicing taiji! I guess it is to help the qi circulate naturally again. Of course, accupuncture is another treatment.

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Taijisd


The more I know, the less I learn; the more I learn, the less I know.

As in real celibacy or temporary celibacy

sometimes - no treatment - permenent damaget o vessels.

Exact description - I cannot give. Just a freind who works in one such hospital told me about.

It is what is called "zhou for yup mor" in chinese - or running the devils fire or fire running amok and entering the demon (like demonic possession).




Temporary celibacy.

TJsd is right - buildup of jing - reabsorption. Notice the loss of energy at ejaculation - therefore the reverse...

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“	Originally posted by Allan_Tsang ...buildup of jing - reabsorption. Notice the loss of energy at ejaculation - therefore the reverse...	”

I read that when a man ejaculates he uses/loses up to half of his jing and stored qi. I read varying ideas on how long it takes to recover - from hours to 4 days. I certainly couldn't say with any accuracy.

Interesting thought on the loss of energy at ejaculation; I thought that is seems the energy of orgasm originates at the huiyin and must be an expnditure of qi (As opposed to the ejaculation being an expenditure of jing). I don't know how accurate this is, this is speculation based on personal experience and reflection after the fact, but couldn't the combination both deplete qi and then slow its recovery (From the expenditure of jing) I hope I'm not offending any one's tender sensibilities here, I'm just trying to expand on the topic here.

In any case these are reasons why one must regulate sexual activity when doing qigong (Especially strenuous, demanding qigong like iron body/palm I'd imagine). It would be like trying to lift weights without having protiens in your system to bulid muscle with. Not a perfect analogy, but...

Any thoughts

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Taijisd


The more I know, the less I learn; the more I learn, the less I know.

Note on "jing" ...

to merely equate jing with "seminal essence" misses the root of the word. Yes, jing = kidney essence, and the kidneys govern the sexual function. However, to then equate jing with the sexual function is making a category mistake (and a very common one - many books, teachers, and practitioners of whatever origin make it).

In the most general possible sense, jing = substance. Qi also = substance. Jing is condensed, Qi is diffuse. This is also where the sex stuff comes in. Jing = "substantial form/ essence as in building block" ... = "genetics" ... = "sex"

In other words, it is one of those terms with very many meanings, and the meaning depends on the context. Some of the meanings have become blurred, and now the terminology that is used is (technicaly, from philological. history of ideas point of view) incorrect. Thus "sex harms the kidney essence" (which is fine) is combined with "weak jing = weak kidney essence" then becomes "sex harms the kidney essence because jing is semen and you lose it". This is not entirely true in the literal sense in which it is here stated ... not a "take it or leave it fact"

Thus "first need jing" is variously interpreted as ... abstain from sex ... to must "have sufficient building blocks with which to build" or in other words, be in generaly robust health. Hence some abstain, others work in purely physical terms, concentrate on building up the body, but with requirements of posture, then breathing ... and hey - you're doing qigong.

===

By the way, I overstate some of the above. However, the thing to take away is that "jing" is a multi-layered word with many meanings (yes, the same character). Care is needed when trying to understand any saying which includes it.

RT

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http://www.dragonslist.com/discussio...highlight=jing


regarding kidney essence

have to scroll down...

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Quote is on the second page ...

I would still question the immediate equating of jing (kidney essence) with semen. Yes, some have done so, even some of the "classics" of TCM. Others do not, and devote quite long passages to debating the "definition" (or more likely, the scope/ effect) of jing.

Jing is a word with definite distinct meanings in the philosophical schools. The branch of Taoism that went all sex-oreintated equates with semen. Other branches do not ... accept to the second or third derivative. In particular, the notion of the ultimate driving force of man being sex (yes, Freud was not the first to generate that paricular idea) is found in some schools and not others. The kidneys also govern the bone marrow - one part of this idea being the very core (hence essence, though there are other firmer reaons). Are we therefore to say that semen is the same as bone marrow Or do we just content ourselves with "both are important and governd by/ are given genesis from the jing that is called kidney essence" As regards too much sex ... the classics say too much grief is bad for the lungs ... does it mean that the lung-essence (he says, inventing a term) equates to (i.e. is exactly identical to, refers to the same thing) sad feelings ... and that if one expresses too much of this precious saddness, one will injure the lungs as they are depleted

It is very much analogous to that Qi word ... in 11th - 16th century neo-confucian thought, two things were formost: Li and Qi. Li is principle - Qi is substance. Li organises the Qi. A very different notion of Qi than the "only the ethreal stuff" one.

Jing-Qi-Shen can just mean first train the body, then the breath, then the spirit. Or it can be considerably more complicated and involved.

RT

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"What can be said at all can be said clearly; and whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent" - Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus

<---

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"You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet"- Iron & Silk
"I see no virtue where I smell no sweat"
"Arm yourself because no one else here will save you" - Chris Cornell

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"What can be said at all can be said clearly; and whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent" - Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus

The character jing in question here is one of those Chinese characters which has a lot of meanings. For example, it can be translated to mean cream, as in what you put in your coffee. Similar to English, it also refers to things of the top quality -- what rises to the top, as in "cream of the crop". For example, in the original Qing dynasty palace in Laoning Province Shenyang City, the pavilion with the most precious displays is labelled "Jing Pin", pin meaning more or less "object". Sperm is only one of the meanings

The Jing in Jingshen, which is more or less synonymous with the shen in the jing-qi-shen trinity, isn't the same meaning as the jing being discussed in this post. (I'm not near my dictionary at the moment, and I can't remember offhand if it is the same character). In general conversation, jingshen means spirit or vitality. A person who has tons of energy but isn't manic can have lots of jingshen; so can a good painting or artistic performance.

Shen usually translates as "spirit", and runs pretty much the same range of meanings as the word spirit does in English, from team spirit to spirituality to fairy creatures. It's also the first character in the word for magic.

Qi can alternately mean air, breath, or empty space. The connotation with energy is pretty specific to a small range of subjects.

With all these meanings, there is a lot of confusion. If you've ever read two different translations of some passages of, say, the Dao De Jing or Zhou Yi, for example, they could be so different you wouldn't know they were supposed to be the same. These works are over two thousand years old, and the language has changed considerably. At any point in history, many different interpretations of this theory have existed simultaneously. With regards to martial artists, two teachers/writers could have totally different interpretations, and both be equally good or bad.

For example, in my style, meihuazhuang, we say that the jing is the physical essence of the body. A small amount of the jing is transformed into qi in the dantian. It then rises to what we call the xuanpin (but has many other names), where some of it is converted into shen, which directs the qi. We focus more on what the role or function of each is, rather than on exactly what they are. In fact, we pretty much define them by their function. This is fairly different than Allan's explanations, but that doesn't mean that I have to think he is wrong.

Another thing to keep in mind is that what we think of when we say “energy” or “spirituality” are pretty modern and culturally bound concepts, and these concepts are usually on pretty shaky foundations. If you've ever struggled through a thermodynamics class, you will know that the general public's view of energy is really pretty unscientific. Energy by definition doesn't have any kind of existence of its own. Electricity is simply the movement of electrons, kinetic energy is movement of a particle, potential energy is simply the position of a particle in relation to a gravitational force, and gravity is simply our inability to perceive reality as it exists. Chemists or physicists would tell us we have similar misconceptions about matter.

This kind of stuff makes for a lot of fun and interesting translation and learning Chinese stories. For example, the pavilion I mentioned above, instead of having the proper English translation of “Hall of Precious Artifacts” or something less awkward, is labelled “Cultural Cream Hall the Essence”.

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Nice Post
Jeff(fuzzy30)

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