What is Chi?

For those interested in another's perspective of qi gong...

http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionar...of%20Qi%20gong





Criticism of Qigong

Much of the criticism of qigong involves its method of operation. Both traditional Chinese and Western medicine practitioners have little argument with the notion that qigong can improve health by encouraging movement, increasing relaxation, and improving joint flexibility. However, the benefits of qigong become much more controversial when it is asserted that qigong derives its benefits from qi*acting as a external non-physical force. Most biologists and physicists are skeptical of these claims and see no reason to believe that qi exists in this manner.

Some proponents of qigong make the controversial claim that they can directly detect and manipulate this energy, but there are those who insist that they can only demonstrate this to fellow believers. Others, including many traditional Chinese practitioners, believe that qi can be viewed as a metaphor for biological processes, and the effectiveness of qigong can also be explained in terms more familiar to Western medicine such as stress reduction.


Controversies within Qigong

In the 1980s and 1990s, the increasing popularity of qigong and related practices led to the establishment of many groups and methods in China and elsewhere which have been viewed in a critical light by more traditional qigong practitioners as well as skeptical outside observers. In this view, a large number of people started studying qigong under inadequate supervision, indeed, perhaps the majority of people today who study qigong study from books or video without any supervision by a teacher. This can lead to several problems, according to those who view themselves as representative of more orthodox*schools. They say unbalanced circulation of inner energies leads to unbalanced effects on the various systems of the body, both mental and physical. Stories are told of people gradually developing chronic mental and physical health problems as a result of such training. A common term used by English*speaking practitioners for an example of this is "Qigong Psychosis."

This popularity also led to increased attention for quasi-religious groups teaching styles of qigong in an atmosphere of overt spirituality. As mentioned above, qigong has been associated in China with Taoist and Buddhist meditation*practices for two thousand years, and this association has been exploited, according to traditionalists, by many would be cult*leaders. Perhaps the parade example of a group promoting a New Age-like synthesis of spirituality with their qigong is the school known popularly as Falun Gong, whose worldwide popularity grew to the point that the communist*Chinese government banned their practice outright in the late 1990s.

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May the force be with y'all.

Erik, do you have any experience with internal arts use of "qi" (jing) to move things or people around Would you describe this as the result of "graviton fields" moving the people with no contact Or would you agree that you touch people, generating unusual force with your BODY Feeling that force like extreme pressure along your bones, like when a massive force works on you I experienced those feelings, and I can assure it does not make use of graviton fields. Mitochondrias probably play some role, but you couldn't say that this is very much studied in depth with appropriate biological survey methods. Say, a biopsy of a guy like Chen Xiao Wang counting the density / number of mitochondrias in muscles typically used. Analysing the muscle structure, chemical agents in his blood after heavy longer time use of internal strength (indicating the chemical processes creating the energy), etc. This would be science, the other thing making assumptions that "sound logic" is pseudo-science throwing around buzzwords with no survey. I can say that I felt "unusual feelings" in my guts, prior to the "typical" tingling along various pathways explained in each and every text on it, and then my body did normal movements much stronger. Your claim is that this "qi" could also move things with no contact. This would have been stated up and down chinese texts through 2500 years, since it would be an outstanding feat guaranteeing you a lifelong position at some imperial court. I also experienced "influence" over distance without touching, but my very best guess is that it is manipulating people over the "soul interface", very different from using jing. One thing is muscle machine, the other is feelings. I think the term coming nearest to what is Qi as of western medicine would be lymph, but, this is opinion. Lymph carries roughly 200,000 different aminoacids, of which 2,000 - 3,000 have been given a function by study. It is steering everything of interest in the body not going over blood, so the result of this flow stagnating would cause lots of difficulties with bodies metabolism. Which is MUCH nearer to what Qigong, or qi therapy, cures, as opposed to creating stronger or weaker graviton or electromagnetic fields, not having any function in bodies metabolism. We know that certain qigong or internal arts styles moving creates sometimes electrical feelings on the skin, why, and if this is just a byproduct or responsible for anything, is only speculation. The results of chemical agents on a body is thoroughly studied and a definite yes as of scientifical view of body. If asking me, the electrical phenomen of doing Taiji is just coincidence and sideeffect.

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"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.

A note with the mitochondria...endurance trained athletes all enjoy the benefit of an increase in the number of mitochondria in the cell.

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"You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet"- Iron & Silk
"I see no virtue where I smell no sweat"
"Arm yourself because no one else here will save you" - Chris Cornell

Erik, I for one would be interested in hearing about your training. What methods do you use and where did you learn them I know you mentioned some exercises before, like embryonic breathing, but perhaps you could expand on what these exercises are like from your perspective.

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"When the Boogeyman goes to sleep every night he checks his closet for Cam McHargue"

Ok...when I do embryonic breathing, I seat myself comfortable, then work through my body to make certain I am relaxed, and began to cycle myself into the deep breathing aspect of the training. Then, I begin to feel the field around me, and I consciously turn it clockwise. The field is spherical with cone-shaped "vortexes" at the top and bottom, through which I pull in earth energy from below and heaven energy from above. I pull the earth energy to the entry point of the heaven energy, and the heaven energy to the in point of the earth energy. When these two come together, I extend the golden center at my solar plexus to layer itself with the other two. I then draw up lightning from the base of my spine to fill the spheres to saturation point. At this point, I condense them, drawing them back to my solar plexus region and I compress until they ignite.

For moving meditation, I am now combining gates breathing and bone breathing in an effort to "cleanse" my bones and remove the stagnant energy found there. I do this by pacing, then regulating my breath. As I walk, the energy comes in through the selected gates, and begins penetrating either my fingers or my toes, depending on my starting point. I go through the bones thoroughly, taking my time and flushing the area with high-intensity energy. Some areas appear to be caked with crud, some with sludge, and highly stagnant areas that I have previously dammed energy into are extremely tarry and take a considerable amount of time and concentration to "burn" through. The crud areas flake off in chunks as circulation is restored, the sludge areas cook away, and the tarry areas burn. There is a fine mist that is released as the energy is freed, and an odor. The "tarry" areas take such an exceeding amount of energy to cleanse that it gets uncomfortable, but massage by another is sufficient to remedy this situation. Cleaned areas leave the bone feeling extremely flexible and much less resistant to flow.

Nik, that massive feeling along your bones is a result of the piezoelectric effect.

I think it was Yang, Jwing Ming wo stated that the bones are piezoelectric to some degree. And I don´t doubt the man at all - however you can interpret anything wrong, for example, if you put electromagnetic energy into a piezoelectric compound (say quarz crystal) it vibrates due to some minor angling in the bond structure.

It works in the other way too, if you slightly deform it, the electrical potentials around the compound change, generating an electric flow - along the crystal edges.

A bone won´t vibrate noticably different when you put in electricity - Just you who is being electrocuted (bone being a highly flexible, low-density compound material and permanently in vibration due to the chemical reactions and flow of pressure in it... very interesting dynamic structure by the way)

So no way you can put this vibration into someone as means of an application. A bone under pressure of course induces small electrical currents, yes these may be felt in some areas, and It seems very plausible these stimulate some nerve centers/which in turn opens blood/lymph vessels etc

Anyway thats all not "Chi" And I really don´t think the term was meant to be exactly defined... In that way I like the chinese way of "Shut up and do practice"

Hmm You could call "Chi" your "Potential" which is just another very very general term, yet probably easier to relate to.

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Erschrickstu gern /
Keyn Fechten lern.

chi is an enigma of martial arts, and a paradox to "logical" thinking...

its is everthing, yet is nothing...

in must not be over analysed...nor discounted...

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The E.S.Q.

I think it is very interesting.
I have similar ideas about qi, but I haven't been able to find interesting data on the topic.
I'm interested in kung fu, medicine and (quantum) physics (among other things) and find a scientific approach to qi and kung fu to be very interesting and at the very least informative.
I will try to get my hands on some of the litterature you mentioned, however I believe it mightbe difficult.
Do you know any good web pages I can look at

“	Originally Posted By: Papapishu Do you know any good web pages I can look at	”

www.dragonslist.com

Honestly, i don´t know where you can find better information about this subject, especially reading what the "oldies" here post.


Then you can also check out dr Yang, Jwing-Ming for some books and articles

http://www.ymaapub.com/

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Erschrickstu gern /
Keyn Fechten lern.

When the terminology changes and the discovery and development methods change somewhere there still needs to be something in common
In India concepts differ from the Chinese but the results are very close.

If you look at the results of Kundalini vs Tai Chi (prana vs chi) you can see different approaches but in the end many of the same accomplishments in "energy" manipulation.

Science examines these results to find a cause and from there a common cause but I have not seen much that defines that common cause.

Still one unanswered issue is for those that produce the same results of say power touch or healing that get there through a spiritual approach. Often the approach to development is dismissed when the word spiritual is used, but if you look at just the events that are produced in healing then does the method or concept really matter

Also the methods of development can in fact be a deterrent to results, being too complex, and to detailed.

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By nature we have an open mind by dogma we close it.

i would suggest

1. Stop trying to learn chi-gong from so called kung fu masters who also teach chi-gong unless they seem mentally and emotionally stable and have a sound mind - that you have to judge from being with them long term. You will also need to be with them for an intimate amount of time for close guidance.
Chi gung is a form of healing arts and should be prescibed accordingly.
2. stop learning from books - a lot of freaks I know persoanlly sound real good when they write. It scares me.
3. more people are harms by chi gong than benefit from it. Meaning e.g. - a hundred people may expereince some form of increased stamina but when you have one person lose their mind - that is not worth it to most healers. Any TCMD will tell you the same.
4. If you wanna learn about chi - buy text books that TCM students have to get as part of their curriculum.
5. Don't force ANYTHING. Stop the movement with your intention of any chi in your body. You may not be (in fact I'm willing to bet you're not) ready to open up that channel.

What happens when the dykes are not strong enough to hold the water at bay What happens when you open up a dam but have not cleared the path for the water downriver It's easy to open a blockge but if you're not ready, can you stop it back up - THAT IS THE QUESTION.

DISTROYING IS ALWAYS EASIER THAN HEALING!

WHATEVER THE PROBLEM THAT TOOK YOU ONE WEEK TO CREATE WILL PROBABLY TAKE A COUPLE YEARS TO RECOVER FROM.


I stay away from the white light, golden light, anchore to earth, absorb energy from a spirit guide ****. Some of those are esoteric spiritual practices and have nothing to do with MA chi gong or health. They are "trips". Leave them to hippies. You will see some of these hippies display bi=polar dendencies - that's why. Calm and relaxed one min., next minuite, they are hatefula nd are your eternal enemies. They have no control, yet seek to control. Improper practice is all.

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May the force be with y'all.

“	Originally Posted By: Necronos www.dragonslist.com Honestly, i don´t know where you can find better information about this subject, especially reading what the "oldies" here post.[/url]	”

I know. That's why I'm here.
Thanks for the link.

“	Originally Posted By: Allan_Tsang What happens when the dykes are not strong enough to hold the water at bay	”

Hey! Let's show a little tolerance here!

No, no, no gentlemen, CHI is a line of haircare products. Seriously, there was a clicky ad for it on this site somewhere, can't find the ad to link it now. So I clicked on the ad expecting something far different than what I found; over priced haircare products, a.k.a crack for your hair. So the debate is over, CHI is crack for your hair.

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“A man always has two reasons for what he does-a good one, and the real one.”
-John Pierpont Morgan

"I don't kick nutz, I break faces."
- Kay-kay, a literal relative of John Pierpont Morgan