What is Chi?

“	Originally Posted By: Nik My guess is no it can't. But I know that you can "influence" other people over distance, with, or without talking. However, it's completely irrelevant to have a name for that, it comes as a byproduct of meditation, if you have a name for it or not. If it comes. Ma Yueliang reportedly as of people I trust had such skills, but he himself told the person he never trained for it, it just happened when he already has been old. Commonly, people in extreme situations suddenly developed such things spontaneously, and it also vanished after they had no more use for it. So it can be assumed that there is no agreement in the soul to openly exert such skills in everyday situations, besides the well-known strength and coordination skills of internal arts practitioners, and the "gain mental cooperation by friendliness and funny talking" one of daoists and other wise guys.	”

I agree. My experiance backs up what Nik pisted here.

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-Ben

CHI:In that Palm rebuke flame of candle.

Terrance To Suen

“	Originally Posted By: gooddragon1 So can chi energy be used up to create a sort of telekinetic force?	”

Of course.

Tulipbee

“	Originally Posted By: ErikMcBride Limiting Chi to a purely spiritual aspect allows people to take advantage of it, as so many have over the eons and will continue to do.	”

Erik, I have read your replies. You're probably looking for the relationship between the chinese version of spiritual aspects and the western version of spiritual aspects. I believe you're looking for Chai. In older documents than the Chinese texts, the Hebrew word is chai; it means life force/energy. The force/energy that is in all living matter. This word also means the action of living.
I'm no linguist, but you can see the progression across the cultures: chai, chi, qi, ki. What is getting a little blurred here is the difference between life as full being and life as living energy "chai". You'll notice that in the monotheistic realm, we do make this distinction. Most of us just don't think about it. In non-monotheistic faiths, however, this distinction either doesn't exist or is confused. Hence, everything is divine or has the potential of the divine "God is in everything". With this line of thinking one can choose to worship anything, for it is a piece of the "divine energy", all is deity and deity is in all. This is the folly of other faiths.
God is in all things, but did not make all things Holy and worshipful except Christ.
To compare pneuma with the eastern understanding of prana, qi, ki, or chi is wrong.
Also the Bible makes a clear distinction between the human soul (psuche) and the human spirit (pneuma).

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 1 Thes.5:23 and Heb 4:12

The unbeliever has life and lives, so human life must be in the psuche. I don't know that the unbeliever has a human spirit because of 1 Cor 2:10-16. The natural man or psuchikos - soulish man does not understand pneuma type things. So this passage also shows the difference between the human soul, the human spirit and the Holy Spirit.

If I remember correctly the Church Fathers understood the breathing by which God created man's [living] soul the operation of the Holy Spirit, not that man received a part (essence) of God.


Erik, Even though most chinese believe every soul has a spirit and rest in the Kidneys and the translation for kidneys is "klayoth" more often used as a parallel to "lev" in poetic literature. "Lev" is commonly translated as "heart". From what I'm reading in the older texts, it's possible that not every soul has a spirit as the chinese would think. Please confirm this for me by discussing what "spirit" means in the Asian world.

Hopefully, I haven't offended anyone here on this forum by using other texts besides the chinese translations. Erik, there are others that would like to know if taiji has anything to do with spirituality. If they use the Yin and the Yang along with the Tao, Taiji is spiritual in a deeper sense even though some ~may~ not have a spirit at all:
'That which is born of flesh is flesh'. Its born, it's alive, it walks and talks....but it still needs 'that which is born of the Spirit is spirit' to live with God forever.
Regarding Jesus' words about being "born again" in John 3:3, the context clearly shows that Jesus was referring to a spiritual rebirth or regeneration. In fact, the phrase born again carries the idea of "born from above," and can even be translated that way. Jesus clarified His meaning by affirming that "flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit"

What's on your mind?

Presbyter

I'm not sure dragging chrisitian views into this thread is particularly helpful.

The Chinese do not have the kind of history or mind-body duallism that we in the west have inherited since Cartesian times.

Yin and Yang are not seperate things as such, chi can mean anything on a scale from solid matter, liquids, gasses to energy fields on the other end of the scale and can represent things which are commonly almost imperceptible to those who have not had the required training to perceive it.

Internally there are may types of Chi which are associated with various organ systems and various souls or spirits such as the hun and po which are related to the internal organs.

Can anyone tell me in the field of Chinese Medicine what exactly is the difference between the 'soul' and the 'spirit'?

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The buck stops here.

Seahorse Arts

just a few technical observations erik

"When a crystal is subjected to electric current, it vibrates and produces RF (radio frequency) and in some circumstances, electromagnetic fields"

radio waves ARE electromagnetic waves

a wave is an oscillating field

RF is used to denote a certain band of frequencies in the electromagnetic realm

also not all crystals produce a piezo electric response

but bone is one of them

as are other tissues such as tendons

it has been suggested that the piezo elctric phenomena in bone

is the mechanism for bone growth

and indeed electrical stimulation has been shown to increase bone growth

no matter how you phrase your argument you are always going to get hassle

when trying to marry chinese and western

sometimes because one side doesnt know enough about the other

but more usually because most people are ignorant of the facts of either side

personnaly i like your argument

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"....if you're ever attacked by someone armed with a banana, your first thought has got to be to eat that banana. Thus leaving him unarmed and defenseless." - ace

here's a link for all you budding

bio elctrical researchers

http://www.ortho.lsuhsc.edu/Faculty/...L4/Part34.html

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"....if you're ever attacked by someone armed with a banana, your first thought has got to be to eat that banana. Thus leaving him unarmed and defenseless." - ace

“	Originally Posted By: chuangzu I'm not sure dragging chrisitian views into this thread is particularly helpful.	”

Many say that Qi is the same as Prana, Ki and many other things. Chinese say that Qi is the beginning of all things or the life source. Qi is what creates everything living. With that thought, you might want to learn what Qi really is from the ~Thing~ that made Qi in the first place. Who are you gonna to ask what Qi really is? Would you ask the creator of Qi or would you ask what mankind thinks about Qi and how it effects living things?

Presbyteer

“	Originally Posted By: chuangzu Can anyone tell me in the field of Chinese Medicine what exactly is the difference between the 'soul' and the 'spirit'?	”

I can't answer how the Chinese describes Soul and Spirit in one reply but I can throw in where they got it from. Theres only one source and that is from the Spirit Himself. Here are some definitions of spirit, the primary of which shows all humans have it spirit.

Eastons:

Spirit
(Heb. ruah; Gr. pneuma), properly wind or breath. In 2Th_2:8 it means “breath,” and in Ecc_8:8 the vital principle in man. It also denotes the rational, immortal soul by which man is distinguished (Act_7:59; 1Co_5:5; 1Co_6:20; 1Co_7:34), and the soul in its separate state (Heb_12:23), and hence also an apparition (Job_4:15; Luk_24:37, Luk_24:39), an angel (Heb_1:14), and a demon (Luk_4:36; Luk_10:20). This word is used also metaphorically as denoting a tendency (Zec_12:10; Luk_13:11).
In Rom_1:4, 1Ti_3:16, 2Co_3:17, 1Pe_3:18, it designates the divine nature.

Fausset

Spirit

Hebrew ruach, Greek pneuma. Man in his normal integrity ("whole," holokleeron, complete in all its parts, 1Th_5:23) consists of "spirit, soul, and body." The spirit links man with higher intelligences, and is that highest part receptive of the quickening Holy Spirit (1Co_15:47). The soul (Hebrew nephesh, Greek psuchee) is intermediate between body and spirit; it is the sphere of the will and affections.
In the unspiritual, the spirit is so sunk under the animal soul (which it ought to keep under) that such are "animal" ("seasonal," having merely the body of organized matter and the soul, the immaterial animating essence), "having not the spirit" (Jud_1:19; Jam_3:15; 1Co_2:14; 1Co_15:44-48; Joh_3:6). The unbeliever shall rise with an animal (soul-animated) body, but not, like the believer, with a spiritual (spirit-endued) body like Christ's (Rom_8:11).
The soul is the seat of the appetites, the desires, the will; hunger, thirst, sorrow, joy; love, hope, fear, etc.; so that nephesh is the man himself, and is used for person, self, creature, any: a virtual contradiction of materialism, implying that the unseen soul rather than the seen body is the man. "Man was made" not a living body but "a living soul." "The blood, the life," links together body and soul (Lev_17:11).

International Standard Bible Encyclopedia

1. Primary and Figurative Senses:
(1) As Wind, Breath:
Used primarily in the Old Testament and New Testament of the wind, as in Gen_8:1; Num_11:31; Amo_4:13 (“createth the wind”); Heb_1:7 (angels, “spirits” or “winds” in margin); often used of the breath, as in Job_12:10; Job_15:30, and in 2Th_2:8 (wicked consumed by “the breath of his mouth”).

The soul is described as something living. It's like the breath is the nail and the earthly clay/dirt/gas body is the board. The soul is like the box. You take the nails and nail the boards and build a box and that makes a living soul on earth. When you pull the nails out and the board falls to the ground, then there's soul no more like in death.

Presbyteer

hi presbyter i used that last paragraph as a quote in this thread

There's no such thing as a soul

feel free to comment

really liked the nail box analogy

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"....if you're ever attacked by someone armed with a banana, your first thought has got to be to eat that banana. Thus leaving him unarmed and defenseless." - ace

According Dr. Jwing-Ming Yang chi is your internal life force energy that everyone has. Some except this fact and others do not. Western medicine is still up in the air about this concept. I personally believe in this theory. I have felt it in my own body. Some people may say "oh that tingling in your hands is just your hand falling asleep". I don't by that. I can feel my hands repelling each other when placed close together, like pos. and neg. ends of a magnet when put next to each other. Thats the pos. chi and neg chi (yin/yang). So I difinitely believe in Chi.

Accupunture is based on chi flow along the meridians. The needles are used to open up the meridians so that the chi can flow more easily. These needles may be used in the area being treated or they may be used on the opposite side of the body depending on the ailment (this is where the yin and yang come into play, they have to be balanced). I'm not an accupunturist but have read a little bit on the subject and have had accupunture done to me. Chi difinitely exists.

“	Originally Posted By: Pope_Wingnut ... theres-no-such-thing-soul ...	”

Pope_Wingnut, even though most chinese believe every soul has a spirit and rest in the Kidneys and the translation for kidneys is "klayoth" more often used as a parallel to "lev" in poetic literature. "Lev" is commonly translated as "heart". From what I'm reading in the older texts, it's possible that not every soul has a spirit as the Chinese would think.
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'That which is born of flesh is flesh'. Its born, it's alive, it walks and talks....but it still needs 'that which is born of the Spirit is spirit' to live with God forever.
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Presbyteer

your Chi is your spirtal energy or strenght. Depend how much you focus it will deturmine your chi, if you don't focus it your chi will be low and your stratige will be weak. Focus to much and KA- .
(There was a forum on this already. I remember making an immature joke. Good times)

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