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September 26th, 2006, 10:07 PM
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The thread is simple posting of jihad statements views etc....to understand jihad it takes more than just being angry at what someone sees in the news. To take the time to read statements to look at what many thousands upon thousands of people see as real and meaningful can give insight into another view.
In the art of war there are many lessons on knowing the enemy and to do that it is not enough to know the abilities and resources or even the intent. "To know the enemy you must feel his heart".
This thread is not about right or wrong good or bad or anything of debate it is only for some exsposure.
Jihad Against Jews and Crusaders
World Islamic Front Statement
23 February 1998
Shaykh Usamah Bin-Muhammad Bin-Ladin
Ayman al-Zawahiri, amir of the Jihad Group in Egypt
Abu-Yasir Rifa'i Ahmad Taha, Egyptian Islamic Group
Shaykh Mir Hamzah, secretary of the Jamiat-ul-Ulema-e-Pakistan
Fazlur Rahman, amir of the Jihad Movement in Bangladesh
Praise be to Allah, who revealed the Book, controls the clouds, defeats factionalism, and says in His Book: "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the pagans wherever ye find them, seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)"; and peace be upon our Prophet, Muhammad Bin-'Abdallah, who said: I have been sent with the sword between my hands to ensure that no one but Allah is worshipped, Allah who put my livelihood under the shadow of my spear and who inflicts humiliation and scorn on those who disobey my orders.
The Arabian Peninsula has never -- since Allah made it flat, created its desert, and encircled it with seas -- been stormed by any forces like the crusader armies spreading in it like locusts, eating its riches and wiping out its plantations. All this is happening at a time in which nations are attacking Muslims like people fighting over a plate of food. In the light of the grave situation and the lack of support, we and you are obliged to discuss current events, and we should all agree on how to settle the matter.
No one argues today about three facts that are known to everyone; we will list them, in order to remind everyone:
First, for over seven years the United States has been occupying the lands of Islam in the holiest of places, the Arabian Peninsula, plundering its riches, dictating to its rulers, humiliating its people, terrorizing its neighbors, and turning its bases in the Peninsula into a spearhead through which to fight the neighboring Muslim peoples.
If some people have in the past argued about the fact of the occupation, all the people of the Peninsula have now acknowledged it. The best proof of this is the Americans' continuing aggression against the Iraqi people using the Peninsula as a staging post, even though all its rulers are against their territories being used to that end, but they are helpless.
Second, despite the great devastation inflicted on the Iraqi people by the crusader-Zionist alliance, and despite the huge number of those killed, which has exceeded 1 million... despite all this, the Americans are once against trying to repeat the horrific massacres, as though they are not content with the protracted blockade imposed after the ferocious war or the fragmentation and devastation.
So here they come to annihilate what is left of this people and to humiliate their Muslim neighbors.
Third, if the Americans' aims behind these wars are religious and economic, the aim is also to serve the Jews' petty state and divert attention from its occupation of Jerusalem and murder of Muslims there. The best proof of this is their eagerness to destroy Iraq, the strongest neighboring Arab state, and their endeavor to fragment all the states of the region such as Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Sudan into paper statelets and through their disunion and weakness to guarantee Israel's survival and the continuation of the brutal crusade occupation of the Peninsula.
All these crimes and sins committed by the Americans are a clear declaration of war on Allah, his messenger, and Muslims. And ulema have throughout Islamic history unanimously agreed that the jihad is an individual duty if the enemy destroys the Muslim countries. This was revealed by Imam Bin-Qadamah in "Al- Mughni," Imam al-Kisa'i in "Al-Bada'i," al-Qurtubi in his interpretation, and the shaykh of al-Islam in his books, where he said: "As for the fighting to repulse [an enemy], it is aimed at defending sanctity and religion, and it is a duty as agreed [by the ulema]. Nothing is more sacred than belief except repulsing an enemy who is attacking religion and life."
On that basis, and in compliance with Allah's order, we issue the following fatwa to all Muslims:
The ruling to kill the Americans and their allies -- civilians and military -- is an individual duty for every Muslim who can do it in any country in which it is possible to do it, in order to liberate the al-Aqsa Mosque and the holy mosque [Mecca] from their grip, and in order for their armies to move out of all the lands of Islam, defeated and unable to threaten any Muslim. This is in accordance with the words of Almighty Allah, "and fight the pagans all together as they fight you all together," and "fight them until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah."
This is in addition to the words of Almighty Allah: "And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and of those who, being weak, are ill-treated (and oppressed)? -- women and children, whose cry is: 'Our Lord, rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will help!'"
We -- with Allah's help -- call on every Muslim who believes in Allah and wishes to be rewarded to comply with Allah's order to kill the Americans and plunder their money wherever and whenever they find it. We also call on Muslim ulema, leaders, youths, and soldiers to launch the raid on Satan's U.S. troops and the devil's supporters allying with them, and to displace those who are behind them so that they may learn a lesson.
Almighty Allah said: "O ye who believe, give your response to Allah and His Apostle, when He calleth you to that which will give you life. And know that Allah cometh between a man and his heart, and that it is He to whom ye shall all be gathered."
Almighty Allah also says: "O ye who believe, what is the matter with you, that when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling so heavily to the earth! Do ye prefer the life of this world to the hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place; but Him ye would not harm in the least. For Allah hath power over all things."
Almighty Allah also says: "So lose no heart, nor fall into despair. For ye must gain mastery if ye are true in faith."
A personal statement...no matter where you live in the world, there is a neighbor or two near you that believe, that sees the world through the same eyes as many of the followers of jihad and the many organazations that promote it. It's not on the other side of the world its on the other side of your street.
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Last edited by aqira; September 26th, 2006 at 10:43 PM.
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September 27th, 2006, 04:41 AM
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Posted By: aqira 
take the time to read statements to look at what many thousands upon thousands of people see as real and meaningful can give insight into another view.
In the art of war there are many lessons on knowing the enemy and to do that it is not enough to know the abilities and resources or even the intent. "To know the enemy you must feel his heart". | ” | |
good call A
many people think that the "evil terrorists" are ugly, bearded guys in dresses that live in holes somewhere far, far away...
the only terrorist group we had was build around mainly "normal, decent guys", that worked hard or went to public schools, never caused any trouble, were nice neighbours etc. etc...
most of us don't *want* to know what "those evil people" are thinking...
so thnx for posting this
Chief108
__________________ | “ | Question Authority. Question Society. Question Reality. Question Yourself. Question your conclusions, your judgments, your answers. Question this. If you question everything thoroughly enough, the truth will eventually hit you upside the head and you will know. But here’s a warning: It won’t be what you imagined. It won’t be even close. | ” | |
all hail Martyr Fakka  |
September 27th, 2006, 06:04 AM
|  | Super Moderator | | Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: South East England Style(s): Sinclair Wing Chun Year(s): 8
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Rep Power: 100 | | Here are some of the more infamous suras from the Quran about Jihad:
“Strike terror (into the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies.” Surah 8:60
“Fight (kill) them (non-Muslims), and Allah will punish (torment) them by your hands, cover them with shame.” Surah 9:14
“I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah.” Surah 8:12, 17
“But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.” Surah 9:5
“Fight (kill) those who believe not in Allah, nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”
Surah 9:29
The Hadiths:
In the Hadith, Mohammed also urges Muslims to practice Jihad. Mohammed once was asked: “what is the best deed for the Muslim next to believing in Allah and His Apostle?” His answer was: “To participate in Jihad in Allah's cause.” Al Bukhari vol. 1:25
Mohammed was quoted as saying: “I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, none has the right to be worshipped but Allah.” Al Bukhari vol. 4:196
Mohammed also said, “the person who participates in (Holy Battles) in Allah's cause and nothing compels him to do so except belief in Allah and His Apostle, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to paradise (if he is killed).” Al Bukhari vol. 1:35
The example of Muhammed:
When the prophet of Islam started preaching his new religion in Mecca, he was conciliatory to Christians and Jews. He told them: “We believe in what has been sent down to us and sent down to you, our God is the same as your God.” Surah 29:45
This attitude changed completely after he gained strength. Allah then allegedly told him to “Fight People of the Book (Christians and Jews), who do not accept the religion of the truth (Islam), until they pay tribute (penalty tax) by hand, being inferior.” Surah 9:29
Saad ruled that all Bani Qurayza's men should be beheaded, that the women and children should be sold as slaves and that all their property should be divided among the Muslims. Trenches were dug in the bazaar of Medina for disposal of the eight to nine hundred Jewish bodies whom Mohammed and his men had spent the night slaughtering. (See Ibn Hisham: The Prophet's biography; vol. 2 pages 240 & 241). http://www.islamreview.com/articles/terrorofislam.shtml |
September 27th, 2006, 08:22 AM
|  | moogate victim  | | Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Leeds Style(s): wc/arnis/(b)jj Year(s): since 2002
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Rep Power: 141 | | | “Fight (kill) them (non-Muslims), and Allah will punish (torment) them by your hands, cover them with shame.” Surah 9:14
did you add the parenthesis FF ?
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September 27th, 2006, 08:52 AM
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October 1st, 2006, 07:30 PM
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Posted By: FightingFat
Here are some of the more infamous suras from the Quran about Jihad:
“Strike terror (into the hearts of) the enemies of Allah and your enemies.” Surah 8:60
“Fight (kill) them (non-Muslims), and Allah will punish (torment) them by your hands, cover them with shame.” Surah 9:14
“I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them It is not ye who slew them; it was Allah.” Surah 8:12, 17
“But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.” Surah 9:5
“Fight (kill) those who believe not in Allah, nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”
Surah 9:29
The Hadiths:
In the Hadith, Mohammed also urges Muslims to practice Jihad. Mohammed once was asked: “what is the best deed for the Muslim next to believing in Allah and His Apostle?” His answer was: “To participate in Jihad in Allah's cause.” Al Bukhari vol. 1:25
Mohammed was quoted as saying: “I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, none has the right to be worshipped but Allah.” Al Bukhari vol. 4:196
Mohammed also said, “the person who participates in (Holy Battles) in Allah's cause and nothing compels him to do so except belief in Allah and His Apostle, will be recompensed by Allah either with a reward, or booty (if he survives) or will be admitted to paradise (if he is killed).” Al Bukhari vol. 1:35
The example of Muhammed:
When the prophet of Islam started preaching his new religion in Mecca, he was conciliatory to Christians and Jews. He told them: “We believe in what has been sent down to us and sent down to you, our God is the same as your God.” Surah 29:45
This attitude changed completely after he gained strength. Allah then allegedly told him to “Fight People of the Book (Christians and Jews), who do not accept the religion of the truth (Islam), until they pay tribute (penalty tax) by hand, being inferior.” Surah 9:29
Saad ruled that all Bani Qurayza's men should be beheaded, that the women and children should be sold as slaves and that all their property should be divided among the Muslims. Trenches were dug in the bazaar of Medina for disposal of the eight to nine hundred Jewish bodies whom Mohammed and his men had spent the night slaughtering. (See Ibn Hisham: The Prophet's biography; vol. 2 pages 240 & 241).
http://www.islamreview.com/articles/terrorofislam.shtml | ” | |
Nice posts here. One thing stands out to me in all this, that is the eventuality of empowerment ideals in men who are no longer marginalized. It essentially was the same with christianity, a marginlized minority gains strength and momentum, and then it becomes more about power and control here than about spirituality.
We're becoming far too engrossed in the details of religious belief, when the actual answers much simpler, and more natural. It is not the case that I tread any new ground in saying that many religions probably started out with good intentions of elevating the spirituality of people, and descending, through the will and hearts of man, into violent controlist politicized organizations. At this point in my life, I find that usually the most spiritual people, are those who to not profess their spirituality, but express it through action and deed.
My particular choice of advising theological thought, taoism, stresses the observance of natural laws all around us. We can easily view and see with open eyes what is proabably right or probably wrong in nature, and then live according to those simple laws. We need not profess them, nor enforce them on others. It's similar to raising a child, if you constantly tell a child what then can and cannot do, regardless of punishment, you instill in them a sense of great curiosity in performing the denied acts. By suggesting and advising, and allowing a child to be flexible but standing firm in your advisement, you can let them grow more readily to understand what is right and wrong. So it is with religion, men become bent on being correct before their creator, and die holding a banner of ignorance and arrogance. Better to be moderate in your beliefs, and not hold so tightly to the words, but to the emotion, and the suggestions. For spirituality is anything but literal.
I love your posts fightingfat, I don't post often, but I read yours. I was a Catholic myself once, and I still see a lot of good in the Catholic religion, in people who seem like they are not imposing or enforcing dogmatic code. And I am fairly sure you do not follow Catholicism to the letter, for their are unjust laws and writs of mankind littered about it's text as well. I just fail to see, why people cannot accept that to be the case with Islam?
The people in many of the countries where fanaticals are, have low literacy rates, and even lower qualities of life. They live a marginalized existance, and find strength in their great war. I do not apologize for their behavior, but before we can begin to tear apart their texts and find their problems, should we not first see the forest for the trees?
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October 1st, 2006, 07:47 PM
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Rep Power: 6 | | | I can't seem to edit my post, but to add to aqira's posts, I'd say that, yes, a great many of the Muslim's that live near me could be fanatical. The thing that makes me sleep well at night, is knowing that, there are checks and balances in this country, that prevent those who would do mass harm, from gaining too much momentum. I realize we have been attacked now, several times, but the result of these attacks is more akin to reflection and severe repercussion to the offenders than to swell support of those who are zealots. Feeling more than moderately worried about the fanaticals in our country is similar no doubt to feeling extremely worried about the KKK blowing something up and eventually gaining a majority support. It is not going to happen. I will be flexible and remain with my point that, we're approaching the topic in the wrong way, we can dig into any set of rules of any order and come out with an explenation for that order's actions, but there are more variables than words or laws that govern the actions of a few. Or, the crowd.
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October 9th, 2006, 10:34 AM
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Rep Power: 100 | | | What that Muslims can't agree on almost anything about their religion? |
October 9th, 2006, 10:57 AM
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Rep Power: 100 | | | Just a reminder that the point of the thread is not to open a debate about islam but to give some links so people can see first hand some of what these groups are saying and doing.
To look at facts and noting more and from there some clear view of whats real. Right or wrong aside the actions are real and everyone is part of it at some point.
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October 9th, 2006, 12:01 PM
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Posted By: FightingFat
What that Muslims can't agree on almost anything about their religion? | ” | |
It's not that muslims can't agree, it is a simple fact that some people choose to follow their desires rather than what the text says.
By the way fightingfat, just how many christians agree on all aspects of teir religion? Not many as the interpretations are numours. In Islam we have the text that is clear. We have three things going on in our community: 1. people who don't know the text 2. people who know the text, but refuse to follow it 3. people who know the text and follow it.
In those three catagories number 2 is the most damaging because they are the ones that are influencing number 1. So number 3 has to fight the two with the facts, proofs and knowledge that they have. I don't see that coming from christians towards one another and certainly not towards the muslims.
So fightingfat your argument is empty as has been the case since your popes comments. |
October 9th, 2006, 12:46 PM
|  | Fear is the Mind Killer | | Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: MA Style(s): Long Men Jia Quan Year(s): 27
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Rep Power: 81 | | | Though the middle eastern nations are very ancient the religion of Islam is still in its adolescence when compared to Christianity and Judaism.
There is still very much a cultural conflict with reagrds to the Faith and the old ways regardless of what is said.
Remember that Christianity had to evolve over time into something people for the most part could allow to be diverse and still accept. (mostly) ie. Ireland etc. Its happened to all religions just about. Even the Budhists have violence in their history. It so happens that this particular faith is gowing through this at a time in which technology has advanced the methods of violence. If we had bombs, RPG's or nukes 1200 years ago They would have been used just well to achieve religious freedom or whatever rationalised excuse people need to kill eachother
IMO There will continue to be violence and hatred until the culture of Islamic countries evolves.
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