Judo

Hi All,

I'm considering starting up in the Judo class by mine, which is kind of a rival school to my Kung Fu one. This doesn't bother me, and I dont think it will bother my Kung Fu teacher since I am still attending his classes every tuesday and thursday, it's just I'll be in Judo on a Monday, Wednesday and Friday! It is the perfect opportunity for me to get a lot of fun from the MA's. I'm basically looking to take up Judo for 3 reasons:

1. I practice self-taught BJJ, so some form of skilled opponent would be good practice and educational
2. I want the competitive side of things, so I can go playing in tournaments
3. Never know when you might need to throw someone

I've been to this school once before, to see what it was like. This was a few months ago, but I had a fairly legitimate reason for not going back. I hurt my shoulder, which is still not feeling good, but I'm bored of waiting for it to heal and a bit of pain never hurt nobody! Plus I thought there was too many people wearing black belts. 4/5 made me think they handed them out like sweets, but really I should of been fighting people and seeing if they were any good, rather than just dismissing them. One guy was a black belt and was reasonably good, although he couldn't tap me out

So many question is, do you think there is any benefit from learning Judo and KF?

They seemed to have a balanced approach to free-standing and ground sparring, spending equal time on both which is good.

To those who are experienced Judoka's, how can I learn to better relax myself in the standing phase and perform unexpected throws?

Thanks
Craig

I belive there's benefit. Though it's diffuculty is comparible to learning two technical trades at once.

__________________
"-when you yourself know that a thing is good, that it is not blamable, that it is praised by the wise and when practiced and observed that it leads to happiness, then follow that thing.”

I'm sure there's plenty of benefit. Especially if you wanna compete...

I don't know if this school is any good or not but a few things:

1: Dont expect them to be very good at making people "tap out" LOL. They are training for judo competitions and the rules are different!
2: It will take a LONG time to gain the throwing skill necessary to be able to catch someone with a throw they don't see coming. In judo, they often see it coming but you just happen to be stronger or quicker than expected.

After some time training, you'll learn throws and counter throws...then you'll be able to catch people off guard.


Again, I dont know if this school is any good or not....but either way....if what they are teaching doesn't work, you'll know after the first few times you try to throw someone.

I would STRONGLY urge you to start doing extra warmups before classes in both arts.

For the first few MONTHS of taking falls you will be pretty bruised up and sore. Also, Judo throws use muscles that most arts never even consider using....you are gonna feel alot of soreness in your back and "love handles"....your abs and probably inside/outside of your thighs.

So if you dont want it interfering w/kung fu training....I advise you step up your warmup/cool down periods. Do them before you even leave home!!! LOL

__________________
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.
-Zen proverb

From the pine tree
Learn of the pine tree.
And from the bamboo
of the bamboo
-Basho

But with them being so distinctively different, it's almost like learning two completely different things to me, which should make it easier?

“	Originally Posted By: x893 1: Dont expect them to be very good at making people "tap out" LOL. They are training for judo competitions and the rules are different!	”

Are Newaza competitions rare then?

I seriously doubt it'll be difficult to "keep them seperated". Not sure what kung fu you do.....but judo will be VERY VERY different.

__________________
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.
-Zen proverb

From the pine tree
Learn of the pine tree.
And from the bamboo
of the bamboo
-Basho

Unless they changed the rules, ie Olympic Judo regulations, there isn't really an official "ne waza" competition anyways.

You get points based on throws....and if it goes to the ground, you go for holds.


Dont get me wrong though.....in training I'm sure you'll do newaza....as well as in sparring or "in house" competitions. But outside of the school....there probably wont be any pure newaza tourneys.

__________________
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.
-Zen proverb

From the pine tree
Learn of the pine tree.
And from the bamboo
of the bamboo
-Basho

So how can a fight go from standing to ground? If i jump guard on someone does this count as transitioning?

OK I just did a little diggin and apparently nowadays folks ARE DOING NEWAZA competitions.


So....no problem there....you just have to see if your school is into that or just the Olympic judo aspect.

__________________
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.
-Zen proverb

From the pine tree
Learn of the pine tree.
And from the bamboo
of the bamboo
-Basho

Let me explain:

Back in my judo days....LOL....You did sparring, similar to NHB ....but with limited striking.

If you wanted competition you did standup and/or newaza but not in the way you were thinking.

In standup...both guys start with the basic hold of each others gi. They then go for throws.....if it goes to the ground on the offensive you can go into newaza.

Or some schools held purely newaza competitions that would start from a kneeling position.


Perhaps the judo rules would be more clear here:

“	Article 16 -- Entry into ne waza (groundwork) The contestant shall be able to change from standing position to ne waza (groundwork) in the following cases, but should the employment of the technique not be continuous, the referee orders both contestants to resume the standing position. (a) When a contestant, after obtaining some result by a throwing technique changes without interruption into ne waza (groundwork) and takes the offensive. (b) When one of the contestants falls to the ground, following the unsuccessful application of a throwing technique, the other may take advantage of his opponent's unbalanced position to take him to the ground. (c) When one contestant obtains some considerable effect by applying a shime waza (strangle) or kansetsu waza (a lock) in the standing position and then changes without interruption to ne waza (groundwork). (d) When one contestant takes his opponent down into ne waza (groundwork) by the particularly skillful application of a movement which although resembling a throwing technique does not fully qualify as such. (e) In any other case where one contestant may fall down or be about to fall down, not covered by the proceeding sub sections of this article, the other contestant may take advantage of his opponent's position to go into ne waza (groundwork). APPENDIX Article 16 - Entry into ne waza (groundwork) (d) Example - When a contestant performs hikkomi gaeshi (a locked together rolling action), should the contestants separate at the end of the action, the result can be considered as a throw and scored accordingly. When one contestant pulls his opponent down into ne waza not in accordance with Article 16 and his opponent does not take advantage of this to continue into ne waza, the referee shall announce Matte, stop the contest and award Chui to the contestant who has infringed Article 27 (xx). When one contestant pulls his opponent down into ne waza not in accordance with the rules of Article 16 and his opponent takes advantage of this to continue into ne waza, the contest should be allowed to continue but the referee should award Chui to the contestant who has infringed Article 27 (xx).	”

__________________
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.
-Zen proverb

From the pine tree
Learn of the pine tree.
And from the bamboo
of the bamboo
-Basho

You can't "pull guard " in judo competitions LOL...not in the way you are thinking.

This is JUDO...not BJJ or NHB.

So here's how things will usually go:

Both opponents face each other, right hand grabs gi collar, left hand grabs gi under opponents right elbow (or thereabouts).

Hajime!!! Now you try to throw each other and counter throw....should it go to the ground....if you take the offensive and immediately go into newaza holds and such.....then you can grapple on the ground until some gets a definite hold or lock.

That's the official version.

In class, and for training, you'll probably go for the throws until someone gets one (or just falls due to off balancing). Once on the ground...it'll be understood that you guys just keep going until someone taps out.

At least that was my Judo experience. But like I said...in competition....positioning counts! If i get you in "kata gatame", which is a ground hold, and you can't get out...after a short time I'll get awarded points/half points.


Is that more clear?

__________________
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.
-Zen proverb

From the pine tree
Learn of the pine tree.
And from the bamboo
of the bamboo
-Basho

Oh and I did notice that alot of folks are holding "just newaza" competitions nowadays.

Usually these will start from a kneeling position....and then you just go at it LOL.

But like I said....this will vary depending on who is doing the competition an what rules are in place.

__________________
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.
-Zen proverb

From the pine tree
Learn of the pine tree.
And from the bamboo
of the bamboo
-Basho

I have never heard of a "just newaza comp" before. Don't expect these guys to let you play your "self taught BJJ." when I go to the judo club, I get nothing but flack and homosexual remarks based on the fact I refer to myself as a jitsu guy. They have none of it and decide to work on only throws because that way, I don't tap them all out with the only submissions they allow.

If you want competition, then yes...by all means. Judo tournaments are pretty fun and if you want to play around and compete, then I I think they are pretty popular too. Not sure where you are, but even here..there's 8 or so year within driving distance and there is no judo love at all besides Leo White's school in Atlanta.

__________________
No matter where you go, you are what you are player
And you can try to change but that's just the top layer
Man, you was who you was 'fore you got here
Only God can judge me, so I'm gone
Either love me, or leave me alone

They seemed quite respectful of my BJJ last time i was there.

They did let me use my BJJ, but i think that was more of a, lets see what hes capable of kind of thing.

In my city there is a fair few judo schools, so competitions and mixed-schools stuff happens loads.

What happens if you're thrown, but actively get some form of defensive on the go as soon as you hit the ground, like locking your opponent in an armbar? It seems a bit confusing to me.

“	Originally Posted By: x893 (d) When one contestant takes his opponent down into ne waza (groundwork) by the particularly skillful application of a movement which although resembling a throwing technique does not fully qualify as such.	”

With this, I'm guessing I can perform something like a single leg takedown or a double leg and take it to the ground? What about getting a grip from behind and taking their waist, and then tripping them down over my leg, and landing in a mount?

Ty for the responses so far!

Yeah....when I did judo there was no such thing as "newaza only" competition either.

But when I pulled up the rules from a site I usually get them from....it mentioned there were newaza comps now.

But again, not sure about the school he's looking at....some will allow newaza. ...for instance, start standing and go until someone taps out or can't get outta holds for more than 30 seconds.


But if you look around online, at various Judo schools lists of techniques.....MANY don't even teach newaza techniques except for holds now!

__________________
If you understand, things are just as they are; if you do not understand, things are just as they are.
-Zen proverb

From the pine tree
Learn of the pine tree.
And from the bamboo
of the bamboo
-Basho