How many of you out there know any Tai-Chi fan forms? What do you think of them? What did you find most difficult in learning them? Which ones do you know?
I just started learning the Yang style Plum Blossom fan form. I like it, but the hardest thing so far is the angles are very different from any form I have learned yet. It's sort of confusing.
I noticed I could not even find a youtube version of this form, although I found some other tai-chi fan forms. I thought that was sort of weird. Usually you can find SOME version on youtube, even if a bad one, but nada.
-aaradia
__________________ I must not fear.Fear is the mind-killer.Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration.I will face my fear.I will permit it to pass over me & through me.& when it has gone I will turn to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.Only I will remain.F.Herbert
I don't know that one - is it a double or single fan form? Is it a beijing competition form?
How do you mean the angles are different?
I haven't "learned" any fan froms. My interest was always to get good enough at the yang stuff to get started on the chen. Now I'm on the chen I wan to get the 18 down and on to the longer forms, then the broadsword... then in however many tens of years that eats up - fan forms.
I did take an interest in the fan stuff but under a master who dismissed the standard form as "something to keep the kung fu people happy" and reworked all the footwork more to his satisfaction. Good tai chi but not very standard
__________________
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you
High mountains are a feeling
I don't need to sell my soul, he's already in me
i couldnt help thinking that form would be more applicable to a knife
nice though
__________________
"....if you're ever attacked by someone armed with a banana, your first thought has got to be to eat that banana. Thus leaving him unarmed and defenseless." - ace
I don't know that one - is it a double or single fan form? Is it a beijing competition form?
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Huh, I didn't even know there were double fan forms; no this is a single fan form. I don't know if it is a competition form. I am guessing if it was a common competition form, more of you would be familiar with it and there would be more stuff on youtube.
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How do you mean the angles are different?
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Well, I only started it, but the footwork seems to have more angles in the way you step. more diagonal stepping and 45 than left to right and forward and backwards.
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I did take an interest in the fan stuff but under a master who dismissed the standard form as "something to keep the kung fu people happy"and reworked all the footwork more to his satisfaction. Good tai chi but not very standard
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I'll ask next class, but I think it is a traditional from descended from Grandmaster Hu-Yuen Chou, because that is where most of our Tai-chi comes from.
We have another Tai-Chi fan form later on that we learn called the wind chasing fan form. I found some youtube stuff on that form, but as I don't learn that one for a couple of sash levels yet, I didn't want to confuse myself.
I also know a CLF fan form called the hand breaking fan form. The beginning of the tai-chi fan form definitely feels tai-chi like as compared to CLF. There are Tai-Chi moves with the fan in your hand but otherwise very hand form like. (There is a "wave hands like clouds" part and a "roll back")
-aaradia
__________________ I must not fear.Fear is the mind-killer.Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration.I will face my fear.I will permit it to pass over me & through me.& when it has gone I will turn to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.Only I will remain.F.Herbert
Well, I only started it, but the footwork seems to have more angles in the way you step. more diagonal stepping and 45 than left to right and forward and backwards.
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For what it's worth... I've trained a couple of the competition forms this way with my teacher. His teacher learned tai chi from his grandfather (who was pretty well known as a martial arts expert in his area of China) and taught the forms that way despite several years "official" training later on. It's closer to shaolin and it's more fighting oriented is my teacher's explanation.
__________________
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you
High mountains are a feeling
I don't need to sell my soul, he's already in me
Originally
Posted By: Pope_Wingnut
i couldnt help thinking that form would be more applicable to a knife
nice though
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Can still be used that way and as a baton as well as a fan, that's why I like it, it's versatile and legal.
Though the fighting fans of old had knife points at the end of the spines so it could be used to stab and cut with a full open fan slice.
__________________
"....if you're ever attacked by someone armed with a banana, your first thought has got to be to eat that banana. Thus leaving him unarmed and defenseless." - ace
I've been through a few fan forms and all of them are pretty interesting,...three Tai-Ji forms, 16-step,(based on the 16-step empty-hand form but with a fan), Tai-Ji Shan created by a Master Li,(can't remeber his first name?), this version is on youtube, and a Tai-Ji Dragon Form Fu-style created by GrandMaster Bow-Sim Mark. The last form is my favorite,..but it has a coiling Ba-Gua feel to it also! Double fan forms are probably the most difficult at first, because you have to be proficiant at 'opening' both fans from the left-right hand perspective! Good left-brain study,..lol'. and,..yes, in the old' days some fans were made of metal and each of the 13 ribs were sharp at the end! (kung-fu Freddy Kruger,...lol') As always, the overall difficulty lies in the 'empty-hand' when you have a weapon!(single fan of-course'). Try to keep the empty-hand in ANY weapon form as active and focused, no matter 'how' YIN it's movement/job is in the form,...again, good left-brain 3-D body-inventory!
Ya, there are some nice traditional forms for the fan out there, for sure.
But as was said above: In Taijiquan, the fan was not a traditional weapon, so it was created by Li Deyin, who was active in creating all those modern competition forms, "to keep the gongfu people happy".
In fact the Taiji gongfu shan has lots of different style influences, even Bagua and Xingyi, some Shaolin is in there, too, and when you listen to the words of the choreographed song comming with it, it sound very, very nationalistic.
The performances of Li`s female student on DVD are not convincing at all, and we in Taiwan train it for fun only, trying to apply inner principles of our Yang style.
Still, it is always nice to know how to handle something new in your hands. But to learn how to handle the 18 categories of TC weapons will really take a life time.
yes',..Master Li DeYin! Thank you! I agree,...I also have a Choi-Lei-Fut Fan-form that is more Traditional,...now to use the Fan as a knife/short-weapon either fast or Tai-Ji style shouldn't matter much as long as the student understands how to use the weapon,(ANY weapon) and I didn't care for the 'Song' that went along with Master Li's Fan-form either,..so, I just do it without the music!,..lol'. Good movement is Still good movement,...I don't let things like music get in the way. As a matter-of-fact' that 'song' gets in the way of traditional Tai-Ji flow and continuous movement! There are too many hold/tempo count spots in it,...it STOPS the action! When I have my students do it, there is no music and it flows from one action to the next, the way 'any' kung-fu form should.
