Very good Taiji PH / chin'na demo

Very good example of true PH / Taiji wrestling skills:

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"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.

I dunno Nik. Fun to watch, but it seemed to me that the students were not even using the basic rudiments of TC as I have been taught anyways.

The students start with the (I assume- GM?) before even getting set in their stance. They have really narrow tall stances (but maybe that is just a different style thing?), and they don't seem to have their hips tucked. Also their arms do not seem to be working in connection with their bodies very well. No connection. The second person also collapsed his arms constantly, especially the right one which started off collapsed across his body half the time. And elbows were out and up too much.

Sorry to sound critical, just my observations.

Although I have a feeling that the GM would probably do the same thing to someone doing all of the above.

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I must not fear.Fear is the mind-killer.Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration.I will face my fear.I will permit it to pass over me & through me.& when it has gone I will turn to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.Only I will remain.F.Herbert

Tucking isn't used in "every Taiji", and, I am about as much a friend of it as I am one of Adolf Stalin. You should DROP your tailbone, not tuck it in like there is no tomorrow, and get loads of back pain. Other than that, yes, they're not dead bound on giving him as few chances as possible in that demo to pull his stuff, but filmed in their usual training they look better at first, but then get the same results. I posted this more for the kind of techniques used by him, as opposed to "Master Wong"s doing Taiji forms moves on a person standing still with a stretched arm.

__________________
"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.

“	Tucking isn't used in "every Taiji", and, I am about as much a friend of it as I am one of Adolf Stalin. You should DROP your tailbone, not tuck it in like there is no tomorrow, and get loads of back pain.	”

I thought tucking would be universal- thats interesting. I wish we were there in person to be able to see the difference in what we are talking about- the difference between dropping and tucking. We are taught to tuck it in, but not to the extreme you mention. More or less to have the tailbone straight - than facing back the way it normally does. I hope I am explaining that clearly.

“	Other than that, yes, they're not dead bound on giving him as few chances as possible in that demo to pull his stuff, but filmed in their usual training they look better at first, but then get the same results. I posted this more for the kind of techniques used by him, as opposed to "Master Wong"s doing Taiji forms moves on a person standing still with a stretched arm	”

Well, I would like to see GM Wong's tapes of a similar nature if you know where they are.

Honestly, I come from a school downline of his and I respect him greatly, but that does not mean I approve of everything. Some of the video's on youtube I like, some I don't. So, I would tell you honestly if you posted a video of his and I didn't like something of it.

Now if I could post some Tai-chi of our Tai-Sifu, that would be something. His tai-chi is fantastic! Honestly, I like it better than GM Wong's, my Sifu, or anyone elses I have ever seen.

EDIT: Did you mean to refer to my GM specifically? I thought you were referring to some tape of him. Now that I am not at work and read it I am not as sure. It is a common last Chinese name. If not, ignore the last bit.

Take Care- gotta go back to work now
aaradia

__________________
I must not fear.Fear is the mind-killer.Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration.I will face my fear.I will permit it to pass over me & through me.& when it has gone I will turn to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.Only I will remain.F.Herbert

The name is a random pick.

__________________
"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.

This is one of those videos where I wish I could actually cross hands with the gentleman to see for myself. From straight observation, I could not tell if that was a pre-arranged demo or not. It had all the characteristics of the goofy Tai Chi demos I've seen on the web, including students hoping and jumping away in (what I perceive to be) an unrealistic manner.

I watched it several times looking at the body mechanics. Normally I would brush a video like this off, but I trust your opinion Nik...so I tried to give it a second chance. When I focus on the legs, hips, and core I do not like what I see. Or more specifically, I don't see where the master is generating enough power to make the students hop back. It might not be his intent, but its very possible that his students are dramatizing his pushes.

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"You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet"- Iron & Silk
"I see no virtue where I smell no sweat"
"Arm yourself because no one else here will save you" - Chris Cornell

I know him, and no, they are not. He can pick up the long haired guy with one hand and hold him up in the air. All them three Ma brothers are 250lb+, and they can generate a LOT of power from their torso. You might need to "play" a bit with him to understand his level of strength, but on the other hand, it should be obvious how he pulls the student by the neck or uses his 250lb leverage to pull arms a bit. He once had a bad day in the office and faked a push in one direction, the guy complied, and instead got pulled in the other, the dude was flying 10 feet through the room and crashed into a wall. I'd bet a 270lb powerlifter would do the same if he hurls you by an underhook.

BTW, in the school of the first dude, they had a 260lb elder farmer, he almost ripped out my thumbs when I grabbed his arm and he did that pull/push manouvre.

__________________
"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.

I saw no link nor can I even se any of the posts except for Wraith's.

What gives??

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One hit, see blood.

It's not enough to just not get hit

i can see it fine

had an oppertunity to do some PH for the first time last sunday

me likey

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"....if you're ever attacked by someone armed with a banana, your first thought has got to be to eat that banana. Thus leaving him unarmed and defenseless." - ace

Wait....who is 250lbs?

__________________
"You must eat bitter before you can taste sweet"- Iron & Silk
"I see no virtue where I smell no sweat"
"Arm yourself because no one else here will save you" - Chris Cornell

I don't think it's pre-choreographed or anything like that, but the students he's demoing on are pretty compliant (and a bit weak looking). He's got more mass, a lower center of gravity, and they're standing pretty stiff with very straight legs. Doing a public demo with a famous teacher is going to make a lot of people unconsciously more co-operative too

“	Originally Posted By: Nik He can pick up the long haired guy with one hand and hold him up in the air.	”

Do you have a video of that?

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Wolfgang says:

I could think of a million better things to do in Japan for a month besides jumping off of picnic tables. - x893

I thought it looked ok. There hands were higher than Id've expected and they were obviously using rooting rather than the unnaturally low stances of competition push hands.

It's a demo and they've probably been pushed hard by the same guy in the past but also trust him not to suddenly pull or twist after a push so when they realise they're uprooted they give, stay relaxed, reset, and start again. That doesn't looks as good on the internet as flapping like a hooked fish and refusing to admit the other guy has scored his point but it's better tai chi and makes for a much better demo.

“	thought tucking would be universal	”

It's difficult to describe the physical movement. Tell a lot of people to tuck and they exagerate and really tuck which is a great way to get special and unique sciatic pain. Don't mention tucking and a lot of people compress the lumber and get lower back problems and pain in the fasic joint at the top of the hip... Lengthening, or dropping, is probably a safer way to describe it, though when you get into detail it gets too complex to sum up in typing.

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Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you
High mountains are a feeling
I don't need to sell my soul, he's already in me

He (the student) told me that they "learned" to not push too hard the hard way, when they did, they get disbalanced too wide and the following pull to the other direction hurts, usually the knees. BTW, the same stuff works also the other way around, with the big dude (yes he was 250lb and his brother is even bigger) getting pushed the very same way (minus the neck pull because he couldn't reach it) from his father who was considerably smaller. BTW, I wondered about that tippy toes "attack" too, but I accept their explanation. And yes, the student is a bit upright and stiff, he was until getting wide too after about 8 years. His wife was able to displace me around her the very same way you see it there because I underestimated her. She was heavier than me at that time too and her center of gravity was lower too. Feels like getting dragged sidewise from a crane.

__________________
"Fawning, but proud!" - (at least sometimes, in rare cases)
"Killing them all didn't make it any better..." - "Are you a freak or something ???" - Max Payne
"Theft is a crime, even in Iraq." - Me.