China trip and interviews with masters

hunyuan13 · #1 (**permalink**) July 6th, 2004, 02:22 AM

Hi all,

I've recently posted this on emptyflower. I thought that some here would be interested and would not be visiting there.

I just returned from three weeks in China a few days ago. It was a great adventure. We spent most of our time in Shandong province, but we also got to visit Beijing and spend a day at Feng Zhiqiang's school.

One item of general interest, we were able to gather evidence that indicates that Chen Fake's form did not change during the years that he was in Beijing.

Hong Junsheng studied with Chen Fake from 1930 to 1944, and left to live in Jinan. Hong practiced on his own until 1956 when he returned to study with Chen Fake for about six months.

We found out where Chen Fake taught Hong Junsheng in Beijing in 1956 from an eyewitness. As has been already established, CFK was pleased with HJS's progress with the forms and push hands and set out to teach him all the applications and counters. HJS later wrote that he commented to CFK that the postures of the form were different than the positions needed for application and asked if he could modify his forms to conform to the applications.

From this it has been inferred that Chen Fake's form changed between the time HJS left in 1944 and returned in 1956. Many have speculated that this was the birth of the Xinjia form.

However, our eyewitness went to Beijing in 1955, lived with Chen Fake for two weeks, studied with Chen Fake until his death and was present for two of the months that Chen Fake taught Hong Junsheng. In that time, he never saw any form taught other than the form that Chen Fake had taught Hong Junsheng. In fact, he saw Chen Fake demonstrate the form, and Hong Junsheng's was exactly like it.

In Hong's account it sounds like one day he showed Chen Fake a completed application form and got Chen's permission to practice that way. What we did not know was that this was a gradual process with Chen Fake actually providing some help along the way as well as approval of the end result.

Hong's book lists every change and the reason for it. We are hoping to have an English translation available soon. Chen and Hong apparently intended to continue this exercise on subsequent visits. Unfortunately, Chen Fake died the following year and additional visits did not take place.

We also got to see some of Chen Fake's practice regimen. It's tough stuff , but I am going to work to incorporate it into my own practice.

Theories have developed around the assumption that Chen Fake's form had changed between 1944 and 1956. Thus differentiating Laojia and Xinjia. This is apparently erroneous.

Who created the so called Xinjia Evidence is still inconclusive. Perhaps a better question is what is Xinjia Other Chen Fake students, such as Feng Zhiqiang have said that the Laojia and Xinjia distinction is invalid.

So, it appears that all students of Chen Fake practiced essentially the same form. Differences between practitioners can be attributed to emphasis in training and imperfections in execution of the form. Hong Junsheng's form is the same in sequence but appears somewhat different since it reflects the applications of Taijiquan.

We also got to interview about seven other Taiji masters. Each interview was enlightening in its own right.

Another highlight of the trip was that Chen Zhonghua was named International Standard Bearer representing the Hong Junsheng family and the Chen Style Taijiquan Practical Method. Li Enjiu was named Standard Bearer for the branch a few months ago.

It was an interesting trip. I personally witnessed at least six challenges and know of two others. Shandong has a long history of martial arts and is historically expected to produce the toughest fighters in China. It's a put-up-or-shut-up attitude. The challenger has very little to lose, so it is still quite common.

I returned from China with the bar raised on many levels.

Richard Johnson

**eight fist** · #2 (**permalink**) July 6th, 2004, 12:16 PM

Man I wish I could have joined you for the trip! I took the last full time training with Master Chen and if I had the money would have joined you all in China. Sounds like it was an incredible experience. Did you get a chance to push with grandmaster Feng Thanks for sharing this Info. On a personal note do you know when Master Chen will be coming home

hunyuan13 · #3 (**permalink**) July 6th, 2004, 02:22 PM

Hi eight fist,

We did not get to push hands with Grandmaster Feng. Several of us had sponsored his daughter Feng Xiaoqian when she came through North America teaching Taiji Ruler two years ago, so we had a natural bond with her. She spent the day with us. Grandmaster was busy with a Japanese delegation.

The focus of this trip was to interview the senior disciples of Shifu Chen's first teacher, Hong Junsheng. We'll be producing a documentary on the life of Hong Junsheng. Shifu Chen was also named International Standard Bearer by the Hong family.

Shifu Chen is still in China with his family visiting his extended family. I believe he returns to Edmonton on 7/24 or 25. He then flies to Arkansas on 7/27 to start the summer intensive that we are having here. We will follow that up with two days of weekend workshops in Kansas City on 8/7 and 8/8. He flies home again on 8/10 just in time to start his fall Full-time Intensive Training Course.

How did you like your full-time training

Richard Johnson

**eight fist** · #4 (**permalink**) July 7th, 2004, 12:09 PM

The full time training was intense! I loved it but I have to say it was the hardest thing I have ever done. Master Chen definitely makes you work for every minute. But after all was said and done the results were really something in such a short period of time. I think we may have met, were you at Hunyuan world this spring Thanks for the info about when he is coming home, I live in Edmonton and look forward to more corrections from him....

hunyuan13 · #5 (**permalink**) July 9th, 2004, 01:15 AM

I was not at this year's Hunyuan World Extravaganza! I came to the first one a couple of year's ago. This year, I was saving my pence to go to China. I will be in Atlanta at next year's. I may get to Edmonton this Winter though. We'll see. I have to take my training as I can get it.

RJ

hunyuan13 · #6 (**permalink**) July 19th, 2004, 03:54 AM

Hi all,

FWIW, here are some pictures from our China trip in something of a random order. A travelogue is being prepare but is not working yet. Unfortunately, not too many action photos here.

http://www.veryjerry.com/China_photos_WEB/index.htm

Richard Johnson

Unkotare · #7 (**permalink**) July 19th, 2004, 10:49 AM

“	Originally Posted By: hunyuan13 Hi all, FWIW, here are some pictures from our China trip in something of a random order.	”

Where

hunyuan13 · #8 (**permalink**) July 20th, 2004, 01:25 AM

Thanks, it's fixed.

rj

Allan_Tsang · #9 (**permalink**) July 20th, 2004, 11:12 AM

I love the restaurant pic with the food...

t-beutel · #10 (**permalink**) July 20th, 2004, 12:18 PM

hunyuan13 · #11 (**permalink**) July 20th, 2004, 03:25 PM

The food was great.

I found that the poorer the area, the bigger the feast they put on for us. Plates were piled high. You were lucky to get just a sample of everything before you were stuffed. I ate some really exotic stuff, but I'd love to eat the regular fare all the time. I'm looking for some quick, readily available vegetable dishes to cook with my breakfast.

I thought I might lose some weight, only 1.5 lbs, which is nothing. But I lost two inches in my waist. Go figure. We'll see if I can keep it off.

Richard Johnson

hunyuan13 · #12 (**permalink**) July 30th, 2004, 12:52 AM

Hi,

It looks like Gord Muir is about finished with his travelogue of this trip.

http://www.chentaichi.org/images2_new.php

You can choose the travelogue.

http://www.chentaichi.org/Chinatrip2004_1_new.php

Or, here are more pictures without the travelogue.

http://www.chentaichi.org/Images/Chi...ess/index.html

It not quite the same as being there. It was a real adventure.

Richard Johnson

yinandyang · #13 (**permalink**) October 17th, 2004, 07:14 PM

i'm going to china next september.
can suggest any good tai chi places could do stay and study. ( yang style would be best )

aqira · #14 (**permalink**) October 17th, 2004, 07:19 PM

Wonderful photos thanks for sharing

twocircles · #15 (**permalink**) October 17th, 2004, 11:53 PM

yinandyang,

Where will you be going in China How long

Richard Johnson