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June 14th, 2007, 09:02 AM
|  | Mong Pu Tien | | Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Florida Style(s): 3 Neijia, Karate, MCMAP Year(s): 15
Posts: 76
Rep Power: 5 | | I can't help but wonder if maybe they got their facts messed up, I've heard of Tiger Training Wine used by the Shaolin to supplement heavy training, but that is a wine made from aged herbs.
Am I mistaken or has anyone else heard of it?
Oh and I'm not even gonna touch the animals rights subject, people tend to get emotional about animals. but I will say this....mmmmm burger......lmao! 
__________________
The more we sweat in peace, the less we bleed in war. Therefore make your exercises bloodless battles, so that your battles are bloody exercises. |
June 14th, 2007, 10:30 AM
|  | Student   | | Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Huntsville, AL Style(s): Jook Lum SPM, Kali
Posts: 2,548
Rep Power: 61 | | | Tiger Bone wine is just that. Tiger parts used to be used in the past but are not today. Today, most people used Dragon Bone (Long Gu) in place which is generally cow bone or fossilized bones, etc., although the effect of Long Gu does not exactly match that of Hu Gu (Tiger Bone). |
June 14th, 2007, 02:30 PM
|  | Venerable Student | | Join Date: May 2007 Location: New Jersey Style(s): shotokan, gojuryu, aikido Year(s): 9
Posts: 120
Rep Power: 5 | | | Anyone know the formula for tiger wine? Also, what would be the difference in substituting cat bones. I mean they essentially are just little tigers. There wouldn't be the mystical mumbo jumbo of the tiger, but the purpose would be the same. Although I understand that fossilization changes the chemical make up of the bones, what are the differences between long gu and hu gu. Is a bone not a bone? |
June 14th, 2007, 03:33 PM
| | Student | | Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Huntsville, AL Style(s): Jook Lum SPM, Kali
Posts: 2,548
Rep Power: 61 | | | Its difficult to say how different they really are in practice as many people use Long Gu as a substitute with good results. I have a good number of customers who buy lots of Long Gu and feel it works well for their purposes.
With that said...Long Gu is said to anchor, settle, and calm the spirit. Its more of a calming herb with astringent properties and apparent strengthening properties of bones and sinews and it does act onthe Kidney meridian, among others. In its preparred form, it is used to promote healing. It contains calcium carbonate/phosphate, silicon, iron, magnesium, and several other trace minerals.
In contrast, Hu Gu is a wind-damp dispelling herb that strengthens sinews and bones. It contains mostly just calcium, and some proteins and amino acids, so the chemical composition is actually different between the 2, albeit, not radically. I dont have any sources which cite the chemical composition of cat bones but imagine they are not much different...lazy cats, their bones might make your training go down hill! =) I kid, I kid...
Its worth noting that while the primary action of Hu Gu is to dispel damp and strengthen sinew and bone, there is no mention in most sources about any strengthening effects of Long Gu. Nevertheless, its commonly substituted with no complaints.
Last edited by PlumDragon; June 14th, 2007 at 03:39 PM.
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June 14th, 2007, 03:48 PM
| | Venerable Student | | Join Date: May 2007 Location: New Jersey Style(s): shotokan, gojuryu, aikido Year(s): 9
Posts: 120
Rep Power: 5 | | | how is long gu administered? is it taken internally or used in jows? |
June 14th, 2007, 03:53 PM
| | Student | | Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Huntsville, AL Style(s): Jook Lum SPM, Kali
Posts: 2,548
Rep Power: 61 | | | Both--just depends on the reason its being used. |
August 7th, 2007, 02:00 PM
|  | Venerable Student | | Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: London
Posts: 415
Rep Power: 9 | | Anyone have any recipe(s) I can make...simple and easy ingredients to get ahold of..without bones.
Something to keep me warm after a day of training 
Also, PlumDragon, ive viewed your site, could you please direct me to where I can buy such herbs like; Comfrey, rose, lavendar, St johns wort..etc in bulk.
__________________  Wisdom, peace, and strength are not flowers to pick, but mountains to climb.
Last edited by yingyangsnake; August 7th, 2007 at 02:10 PM.
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August 7th, 2007, 03:12 PM
| | Junior Member | | Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 28
Rep Power: 0 | | | cats, wine
Domestic cats are little tigers to an extent, but their bones aren't just scaled down tiger bones. In TCM, the bones are connected with the kidneys & hair, which is the extension of blood. While the cat's hair is soft and relatively long, the tiger's hair is hard and short, and tigers are much bigger & heavier- that's why they are ascribed Earth element power. Thus, a small cat's bones are no substitute!
This Spring Wine will warm you up, but women should consume very little of it, if any, and only in the coldest weather! Spring Wine
Last edited by fieryhorse; August 7th, 2007 at 03:14 PM.
Reason: correction
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August 7th, 2007, 03:31 PM
| | Venerable Student | | Join Date: May 2007 Location: New Jersey Style(s): shotokan, gojuryu, aikido Year(s): 9
Posts: 120
Rep Power: 5 | | | that is some sick stuff. placenta!?!?!? |
August 7th, 2007, 03:39 PM
| | Junior Member | | Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 28
Rep Power: 0 | | | sick stuff
IMO, not sicker than tiger's penis! |
August 7th, 2007, 03:48 PM
| | Venerable Student | | Join Date: May 2007 Location: New Jersey Style(s): shotokan, gojuryu, aikido Year(s): 9
Posts: 120
Rep Power: 5 | | | A little bit. Ingesting tiger rod is not cannibalism. Though, I'm certain there are mainy good nutrients in placental soup that would aid in longevity.
When using gecko and seahorse in a jow like this, are they ground? I'd imagine so.
Last edited by Rockyn; August 7th, 2007 at 03:51 PM.
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August 7th, 2007, 03:52 PM
| | Student | | Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Huntsville, AL Style(s): Jook Lum SPM, Kali
Posts: 2,548
Rep Power: 61 | | | “ | Originally
Posted By: yingyangsnake 
Anyone have any recipe(s) I can make...simple and easy ingredients to get ahold of..without bones. | ” | |
What types of recipes are you looking for? These 2 are some basic classical tonics that people tend to like. Both are tried and true, well understood formulas, and Ive made some classical variations to make them good for martial arts training: PlumDragon Herbs PlumDragon Herbs
Some people like to combine these together to make Eight Precious Herbs. | “ | Originally
Posted By: yingyangsnake
Also, PlumDragon, ive viewed your site, could you please direct me to where I can buy such herbs like; Comfrey, rose, lavendar, St johns wort..etc in bulk. | ” | |
Unfortunately, I dont sell but a couple Western herbs (I have stinging nettle I got for a customer). Herbalcom is a good source for Western herbs by the pound but I think youll find that with a good selection of Chinese herbs, its not really necessary unless youre trying to build a real specifically set recipe. | “ | Originally
Posted By: Rockyn
that is some sick stuff. placenta!?!?!? | ” | |
Heh, certainly not a fun item to think about ingesting. Placenta is one of the more nutrient things on the planet though. There are some studies that have been done on it and its quite a tonifying substance. As an aisde, Im not familiar with the Chinese given in that link above and some of the measurements seem different--always variations I guess. =) Usually, placenta is Zi He Che...There seems to be a couple differences though that Ive seen in this particular recipe.
Last edited by PlumDragon; August 7th, 2007 at 04:50 PM.
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August 7th, 2007, 03:56 PM
| | Student | | Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Huntsville, AL Style(s): Jook Lum SPM, Kali
Posts: 2,548
Rep Power: 61 | | | “ | Originally
Posted By: Rockyn
When using gecko and seahorse in a jow like this, are they ground? I'd imagine so. | ” | |
There are different philosophies on this. Some people add these sorts fo thigns whole, other break up, others yet grind. Some of this stuff is available as 5:1 extract as well.
BTW, dont get any ideas, you dont need stuff like this til your in your late 30s...  |
August 7th, 2007, 04:02 PM
| | Venerable Student | | Join Date: May 2007 Location: New Jersey Style(s): shotokan, gojuryu, aikido Year(s): 9
Posts: 120
Rep Power: 5 | | | No worries PD. I was just looking at the pictures and wondering. I'm not interested in living that long!! It just seemed like the gecko was a bit large to fully extract its essence from whole.
Last edited by Rockyn; August 7th, 2007 at 04:04 PM.
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August 7th, 2007, 04:22 PM
| | Junior Member | | Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 28
Rep Power: 0 | | | “ | Originally
Posted By: Rockyn
A little bit. Ingesting tiger rod is not cannibalism. Though, I'm certain there are mainy good nutrients in placental soup that would aid in longevity.
When using gecko and seahorse in a jow like this, are they ground? I'd imagine so. | ” | |
Well, human placenta isn't a human body part- just protective tissue around a newborn which is, by the way, can be obtained only from a woman who decides to part with it. I asked one and was told that it will be buried under a certain tree. Gecko and seahorse aren't ground, just dried. In the US, the seahorse isn't sold now, to protect them. All other ingredients are sold as shown on the site I posted. In any case, after several months in alchohol all " sick stuff" i.e. bacteria are killed, so even if it doesn't seem right it can still be beneficial. | |
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