Samurai Swords, any experts?

Hero · #1 (**permalink**) June 11th, 2006, 11:30 AM

Whats the difference between a Samurai sword and a Katana? I always thought they were one in the same but my buddy argues they are different, well he's not really my buddy, but I know him.

Can legit katana's be bought online? If so, where? I dont want to buy one I just want to have a look - we cant import anything sharp/dangerous into my country. By legit I mean the real thing. I've heard there are many copies of Katanas out there which are of quite bad quality, regardless of how pleasing to the eye they may be.

Iv'e also heard it said that the Katana you buy might be different than someone else based on what thier sensei reccommends. Is this true?
Do different styles of Kenjutsu, Iai etc, require different katanas?
Also, how would a sensei determine what is right for you?

Hope you can help.

Lugaldamhara · #2 (**permalink**) June 11th, 2006, 05:36 PM

Katana = Samurai Sword

Peace-
Cam

Sammygirl · #3 (**permalink**) June 11th, 2006, 08:28 PM

What Cam said.

The term "Samurai sword" just means the type of sword that is commonly used by the samurai class of Japan.

Now there is besides the katana, a second short sword called the wakizashi that was always carried by a samurai. But this is much shorter(12-24 inches) and was always considered a secondary weapon to the katana. The katana is most definitely the main sword and when anybody says "Samurai sword" that is the sword they refer to.

Novice · #4 (**permalink**) June 11th, 2006, 08:44 PM

“	Originally Posted By: Hero Iv'e also heard it said that the Katana you buy might be different than someone else based on what thier sensei reccommends. Is this true? Do different styles of Kenjutsu, Iai etc, require different katanas? Also, how would a sensei determine what is right for you?	”

Some styles of Kenjutsu do in fact, use katana of different lengths, although I wouldn't see any reason for anyone to buy a live blade unless their school requires tameshigiri.

Iaido schools use shinai/bokken, the more advanced practicioners use iaito (unsharpened blade), and students are allowed to bring live blades for test cutting.

Same goes for Kenjutsu, although I wouldn't think many (if any at all) would use iaito in their training.

I think the sensei would probably "determine" what is right for you depending on what art he/she is teaching you.

Novice,

**fuzzy30** · #5 (**permalink**) June 11th, 2006, 08:49 PM

Good replies.

Unkotare · #6 (**permalink**) June 11th, 2006, 11:27 PM

“	Originally Posted By: Sammygirl What Cam said. The term "Samurai sword" just means the type of sword that is commonly used by the samurai class of Japan. Now there is besides the katana, a second short sword called the wakizashi that was always carried by a samurai. But this is much shorter(12-24 inches) and was always considered a secondary weapon to the katana. The katana is most definitely the main sword and when anybody says "Samurai sword" that is the sword they refer to.	”

Maybe they were thinking of a Tachi?

Lugaldamhara · #7 (**permalink**) June 11th, 2006, 11:34 PM

Yeah, Unk, that thought occured to me, also...

Here is a good diagram of terminology of Japanese swords...

http://www.gungfu.com/cart-htm/sword...efinitions.htm

The only one I think is missing is the menuki (handle ornamentation).

Peace-
Cam

**fuzzy30** · #8 (**permalink**) June 11th, 2006, 11:47 PM

Yeah,thats right. I sell all of them.

Sammygirl · #9 (**permalink**) June 12th, 2006, 10:35 AM

Hmm, Hero, I think you will have to buy all the different kinds from fuzzy30 and test them out and let us know about the results! Yeah, that's the ticket.

I didn't know about the tachi, good info -- here's the wikipedia entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachi

Hero · #10 (**permalink**) June 21st, 2006, 05:18 PM

LOL, not interested in buying. Strictly researching.
Most of that stuff surprisingly I already knew.
I guess my main question is, how does one determine a true katana/wakizashi/tanto etc?

Lugaldamhara · #11 (**permalink**) June 21st, 2006, 05:20 PM

Define "true" as it applies to a samurai sword and maybe we can help.

Peace-
Cam

Hero · #12 (**permalink**) June 21st, 2006, 05:26 PM

I was hoping you could help me with that.
I mean real, forged right, fit right, works right. Things to that effect.

Novice · #13 (**permalink**) June 21st, 2006, 06:34 PM

Here.

http://home.earthlink.net/%7Esteinrl/nihonto.htm

Novice,

**Jaron** · #14 (**permalink**) June 21st, 2006, 07:14 PM

As has been said, what do you mean by real? Technically anyone who wants to go out, shape some metal, wrap a handle on it, and stick it in a scabbard can call it a sword. So then the argument comes on quality.

Doing some initial research on katanas will help first off. Both Wikipedia and Howstuffworks have some great info on Japanese sword history and the evolution of the katana. Search around those sites and you can find exactly what you're looking for.

When you go to buy one, what do you want it for? If you simply want it for decoration then just about anything will do. If you're wanting to add it to a collection then you're going to want to get a blade with some age on it and those don't come cheap. That will also take some additional research into swordsmiths so you can identify authentic blades from fakes ( prominent smiths often "signed" the tang of the blade. ) If you just want a quality katana with solid construction and traditional crafting techniques, you've got a good selection and a broad price range before you. What you want to look for is a differentially tempered hammer laminate ( folded ) blade. The folding allows the metal to retain strength but stay light ( because it can be thinner. ) The differential tempering happens by packing the edge of the blade in clay and then tempering it edge down. The clay retains heat and makes the edge cool faster than the back. This allows the edge to be hard so it can receive and keep a keen edge. At the same time the back will be softer so it can absorb impact without breaking. This will also result in a hamon, that wavy line that runs the length of the blade between the edge and back. The furniture is up to your personal taste in what styles and colors you want: brass, bronze, steel, whatever. Traditionally the hilt was attached by one or two pins through the tang, wrapped in stretched ray skin, menuki were put in the pins, then the cord to top it off. The scabbard was lacquered wood. The same things will apply to the wakizashi and tanto. And while the katana was was the main battle weapon, the wakizashi was comparable to a Western officer's sidearm. The katana was left at the door while the wakizashi was always worn ( and usually kept under or beside the pillow during sleep. ) The two together were referred to as the daisho, or big and small. So if you want to complete the look, you'll need both.

Any quality blade will usually give details in the construction process. Cheaper ones usually don't mention anything on it. As long as you look for these basics, you should get a pretty good blade. On average you'll spend $200 - $350 on a good quality sword but prices can go above $1500 for a fully handcrafted wootz hammer laminate blade. Museum Replicas Limited usually has a good selection of top quality, combat ready replicas. I've purchased stuff from them before and I've never been disappointed. Almost everything they offer is either based on actual museum pieces or known styles that actually existed, except things in their fantasy section.

If you need any other info, I'd ask RobT or Necronos, if you can ever find them online. They focus more on European swordplay, but I'm sure they can give you some good stuff.

Supreme-Drunkard · #15 (**permalink**) January 27th, 2007, 06:42 AM

Even tho im a lil late it's the same thing as Laguadamhara says.
Saumrai Sword = Katana.
I wish I was here a lil sooner because I love that kinda stuff lol.