punching speed

Though, purposely telegraphing as a feign/setup is all good.

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"To alcohol ! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems" - Homer Simpson

“	subtle body mechanics can often be fixed by pure repitition	”

Interesting. I'm currently working the other way - stopping a drill either as soon as I achieve a repetition that's as close to "perfect" technique as my body can assess it or as soon as I notice decay in technique - to prevent excessive repetition resulting in bad habbits and imprint the correct movement on the muscle memory.

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Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you
High mountains are a feeling
I don't need to sell my soul, he's already in me

I don't assume all my mistakes will be fixed by repitition. I'm not that naive. But, I think many of the little adjustments ( not all ) are simply things your body can work out on it's own. I also sometimes take movements and break them down and get really technical. Depends though.

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"To alcohol ! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems" - Homer Simpson

“	Originally Posted By: john100 Interesting. I'm currently working the other way - stopping a drill either as soon as I achieve a repetition that's as close to "perfect" technique as my body can assess it or as soon as I notice decay in technique - to prevent excessive repetition resulting in bad habbits and imprint the correct movement on the muscle memory.	”

That's the recommended way to practice Baji. When drilling each technique, you stop and hold the final posture for 8 breaths, then perform the next. The actual execution is fast and explosive, but you can use the breathing to adjust the final posture. Allegedly this ingrains the technique in the mind much stronger than quickly running through reps. This might not apply to all drills, as Baji drills are especially draining (in my opinion at least).

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I though that what Doughboy meant was that doing the technique the "right way" repetitively, would result in the fixing of little things.

Doing things repetitively, when your too tired to do it properly, does not work technique...fortitude and resilience yes, but not technique.

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I am the present. I cannot know what tomorrow will bring forth. I can know only what the truth is for me today. That is what I am called upon to serve, and I serve it in all lucidity - Igor Stravinsky

We use very light weighted gloves to practice some of our strikes. And yes, you do have to watch that you don't hyper extend. We don't do it for long periods of time. What it does do is allow the student to feel what relaxation does to your punch...you feel the pull in your motion when there is a little more weight at the end. Then when the weight is off, you can remember that feeling and perform the punch with less effort but more speed and power.

Don't know if I explained this right but...it helped me.

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“	Originally Posted By: TaichiMantis We use very light weighted gloves to practice some of our strikes. And yes, you do have to watch that you don't hyper extend. We don't do it for long periods of time. What it does do is allow the student to feel what relaxation does to your punch...you feel the pull in your motion when there is a little more weight at the end. Then when the weight is off, you can remember that feeling and perform the punch with less effort but more speed and power. Don't know if I explained this right but...it helped me.	”

I love your avatar!

I don't like the idea of having the weight on the end of your hand. It, in my opinion, gives your body the wrong feeling. I understand the purpose, and what you are trying to achieve, but I feel that there are better ways to do this. It makes you focus energy at the end of your hand at the wrong time. The presense should not be there until the end. Holding the weight there puts it there at the wrong time.

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I am the present. I cannot know what tomorrow will bring forth. I can know only what the truth is for me today. That is what I am called upon to serve, and I serve it in all lucidity - Igor Stravinsky

“	Originally Posted By: Sifu Chuck Kennedy I love your avatar! Holding the weight there puts it there at the wrong time.	”

Thanks...and...

Not sure what you mean by "holding" and "there". We don't hold or stop in an outstretched position. We mainly use the weighted gloves for full swing backfist or uppercut. Some people just can't release the tension in their arms when practicing this. They want to power it through with arm muscle, they don't relax enough or pay attention to hip turn, feet pivot and waist power...think of spinning a rock at the end of a tube sock.

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“	Originally Posted By: TaichiMantis Thanks...and... Not sure what you mean by "holding" and "there". We don't hold or stop in an outstretched position. We mainly use the weighted gloves for full swing backfist or uppercut. Some people just can't release the tension in their arms when practicing this. They want to power it through with arm muscle, they don't relax enough or pay attention to hip turn, feet pivot and waist power...think of spinning a rock at the end of a tube sock.	”

Like I said before, I understand what you are trying to achieve by utilizing the weights, I just do not think that is the best way to do it. I see more problems than benefits.

I will try to explain what I mean. Let's take the backfist strike you are talking about. If you are doing a backfist where your hips and waist work in conjunction with the upper body, holding a weight while performing this will throw the weight infront of the body. This can cause the inertia of the weight to take the lead and pull the body. Then, in order to stop the motion, you have to put the brakes on (restrictor muscles).

The main point is that the hand should never lead the body. Being hand heavy is a no no. It leads to improper kinetic linking and that leads to bad alignment, which in turn leads to less efficient / effective motions.

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I am the present. I cannot know what tomorrow will bring forth. I can know only what the truth is for me today. That is what I am called upon to serve, and I serve it in all lucidity - Igor Stravinsky

“	Originally Posted By: Sifu Chuck Kennedy Like I said before, I understand what you are trying to achieve by utilizing the weights, I just do not think that is the best way to do it. I see more problems than benefits. I will try to explain what I mean. Let's take the backfist strike you are talking about. If you are doing a backfist where your hips and waist work in conjunction with the upper body, holding a weight while performing this will throw the weight infront of the body. This can cause the inertia of the weight to take the lead and pull the body. Then, in order to stop the motion, you have to put the brakes on (restrictor muscles). The main point is that the hand should never lead the body. Being hand heavy is a no no. It leads to improper kinetic linking and that leads to bad alignment, which in turn leads to less efficient / effective motions.	”

I can agree with that if its the only techniques they use for speed and power drills. But if its one of many and done infrequently I dont see it as completely throwing off your internal balance. Once a month or once every few months wouldnt be tobad though. Especially if they are still doing the moveements (without the gloves) at extremely slow speeds, to ingrain proper technique, and at combat speed.

“	Originally Posted By: Green_Horn I can agree with that if its the only techniques they use for speed and power drills. But if its one of many and done infrequently I dont see it as completely throwing off your internal balance. Once a month or once every few months wouldnt be tobad though. Especially if they are still doing the moveements (without the gloves) at extremely slow speeds, to ingrain proper technique, and at combat speed.	”

The point is that even if they are doing it that way it puts all the energy in the hand. Doing that will throw you off and make you readable. You are moving a dead weight with your hand. This will develop dead hands. That is bad.

Also, the connection to the weight starts at the front of the body and not with the body. You are holding a weight up and manipulating dead (non-moving) energy. That does not transfer well into live hand manipulations / exchanges.

You are better off using the bands. Atleast the energy starts behind the body, and this develops connection and proper kinetic linking.

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I am the present. I cannot know what tomorrow will bring forth. I can know only what the truth is for me today. That is what I am called upon to serve, and I serve it in all lucidity - Igor Stravinsky

Sifu Chuck,

I think what you are saying does make sense. Like if you try to simply punch as hard as you can with the weights, it can feel like your Centre of Mass has shifted right into the end of your punching hand. The way I normally approach it, for straight punches, is to sit in almost a Goat Stance ( actually how the Boxing guy said to do it ), so that you use your whole body and your hips to throw, and not your hand weight ( heavy hands ). On the video, the student actually makes that mistake, and the instructor tells him to sink lower into his stance and immediately when I did the same thing, it just started feeling right. That exercise involves sitting in that stance and throwing continuous left and right straights ( with the right speed it creates a sort of dynamic pressure in your arms and shoulders ) for 30 seconds.

If I am just shadow boxing with weights, which I haven't done in a while. I make sure to throw from the hips. This normally slows my strikes down a lot, but at least it's correct body mechanics. Something I also haven't done in a while, that was probably more enjoyable, was to go through various Wing Chun drills mixed up with Hubad motions with the weights. It was definitely interesting.

I think, knowing how I tend to like training, I might end up using the resistance bands. I have done some punch resistance training with a Karate belt ( JKD drill ) and it was pretty cool. I have always gone more towards just using my own bodyweight to train, so all my shadowboxing has been without any weights lately.

I do think it can have it's merits though, as long as it's not overdone. I guess it could tie into the whole "keep your body guessing" thing.

__________________
"To alcohol ! The cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems" - Homer Simpson

“	The main point is that the hand should never lead the body. Being hand heavy is a no no. It leads to improper kinetic linking and that leads to bad alignment, which in turn leads to less efficient / effective motions.	”

Interesting (well phrased by the way).

I would tend to agree but there are a couple of things to add just because nothing is ever simple .

We all do weapon training and (hopefully) none of us with those crappy tin foil things so we all practice rapid movement with weight in the hand and still maintain optimum movement.

After a certain point you start to train optimum movement by putting yourself in a position that makes it harder to achieve. Once you can punch correctly slowly you practice punching correctly quicker, or punching correctly into a bag, or punching correctly under pressure, or (maybe) punching correctly with weights. If you trained with light weights very occaisonally it might be a way to emphasise the "correct" feeling by forcing you to struggle to achieve it.

__________________
Consider Phlebas, who was once handsome and tall as you
High mountains are a feeling
I don't need to sell my soul, he's already in me

Well, it certainly didn't teach my hand to lead the body. It made me more aware of how relaxed energy, hip turn, waist power drive the tool/weight that is my fist.

to each his own...

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“	Originally Posted By: john100 Interesting (well phrased by the way). I would tend to agree but there are a couple of things to add just because nothing is ever simple .	”

I agree. We all tend to find ways to add a little more complexity to our training to increase ability.

“	Originally Posted By: john100 We all do weapon training and (hopefully) none of us with those crappy tin foil things so we all practice rapid movement with weight in the hand and still maintain optimum movement.	”

Good point. However, this is why most TMAs teach weapons later on in a student's training. But in my opinion the weight of a weapon is distrubted differently than a hand weight. Weapons (good ones) have a balance to them that hand weights don't.

“	Originally Posted By: TaichiMantis Well, it certainly didn't teach my hand to lead the body. It made me more aware of how relaxed energy, hip turn, waist power drive the tool/weight that is my fist.	”

TM I was not trying to argue with you, or put down how you are practicing. I was just trying to warn againt some of the mistakes that I have seen others make and giving my reasons for it. Training is a personal journey and we all take different paths to get to our destination. Enjoy your journey.

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I am the present. I cannot know what tomorrow will bring forth. I can know only what the truth is for me today. That is what I am called upon to serve, and I serve it in all lucidity - Igor Stravinsky