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Chin Na in Ground Fighting: Principles, Theory and Submission Holds for All
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Reviews
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Views
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Date of last review
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2
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2516
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Mon November 15, 2004
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Recommended By
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Average Price
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Average Rating
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100% of reviewers
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$30.00
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7.0
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supersize
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Author
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Robin Ashe
Banned
Registered: February 2004
Posts: 4858
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Review Date: Sun May 23, 2004
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Would you recommend the product? Yes |
Price you paid?: $30.00
| Rating: 8
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Pros:
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Covers techniques and principles in great detail
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Cons:
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Un-ergonomic layout, no discussion of positioning
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Chin Na in Ground Fighting appears to be primarily written for standup fighters, specifically those who practice chinese martial arts (considering the publisher being YMAA). I come from the opposite end of the spectrum, already having experience with ground fighting and submissions. I found it to be very useful even though I\'m not the target audience and I\'d feel confident recomending it to anyone regardless of their martial arts background and how much experience they have. Experienced grapplers will know most of what is covered in the book, but they will know most of what is covered in any book on grappling.
Chin Na in Ground Fighting differs from other books on grappling that I have read in that it focuses more on principles behind ground fighting and less on the techniques. Principles come first, techniques come second to demonstrate the principles. Most other books I have read (especially any of the Gracie books with Kid Peligro) are very obviously technique first, describing exactly how to do the techniques with some information on the principles behind the techniques. This would require some reverse engineering to figure out variations on the techniques that aren\'t described in the book. In Chin Na in Ground Fighting, you\'re presented with the tools necessary to develop new techniques (in terms of techniques that you didn\'t know before, chances are that someone else has discovered every technique that anyone would come up with). Chin Na in Ground Fighting would complement a book with emphasis on individual techniques quite well, and vice versa.
The book is divided into eight chapters, with the first four being on general concepts and the last four being on submissions. Chapter 1 is \"General History and Principles\". The history section was an interesting read, and unlike most histories in martial arts books I\'ve read, the information is referenced wherever possible. The Bibliography at the end of the book has two and a half pages of source material - definitely impressive. Anyone who has read the Journal of Asian Martial Arts will be familiar with the scholarly professionalism in this book. The principles are divided up into the principles of Chin Na, the principles of Ground Fighting and principles common to both. I like this set up, it describes both for someone who is familiar with neither Chin Na nor ground fighting and someone with experience in either will know how to apply what they already know. I get the feeling that this benefits people with Chin Na experience more than those who already have ground fighting experience however, as a ground fighter will know most of the Chin Na aspects that could be applied to ground fighting already, just not as Chin Na. Basic training principles are also covered, which can be applied to a wide variety of physical training, not just ground fighting or even martial arts in general.
Chapter 2 is \"The Science of Technique\". A physics buff is going to love this chapter, anyone else probably won\'t enjoy it as much but the information is still very useful. This chapter explains how and why the techniques work. A large part of this chapter explains the concepts of levers and how they apply to submissions. Chokes and strangles are discussed later on in the book. It also covers important factors to keep in mind while aplying submissions. As is characteristic of the whole book, the principles and concepts are given, which are followed by example techniques (or sometimes just portions of techniques).
Chapter 3 is \"Pressure Points of the Fourteen Meridians\". The book could have definitely done with out this chapter and I don\'t see anyone getting much use out of it. It\'s essentially an introduction to pressure points, and isn\'t much different from similar sections in other martial arts books. There is a small amount of information that pertains specifically to ground fighting, but I don\'t see many people getting much use out of it. Someone with no knowledge of pressure points will after reading this chapter know a little bit about pressure points and some basic theories but will be unable to apply the knowledge except for a few tricks that were given as examples. That\'s the group I\'m in. Considering the little ground fighting specific information, I imagine someone who is experienced in pressure points won\'t read anything they don\'t already know as well as they know the back of their hand. It\'s an interesting read nonetheless but it really belongs in a different book.
Chapter 4 is \"Body Tools and Vulnerable Points\". This chapter is definitely written from the point of view of someone who already has stand up fighting experience. Several hand positions that I have never seen in any grappling art but am familiar with from striking arts are presented. It\'s interesting to see them applied in new ways, but I really can\'t think of any reason to use them instead of the basics which are taught in most grappling arts. Most of what is covered could easily just be done using the thumb or the edge of the hand or arm without using any special or unnatural hand positions. Fortunately the basics are covered as well, and the majority of the chapter deals with these. It is very complete in the number of tools it covers, as well as the vulnerable areas. It deals with chokes as well as joint locks to the arms, legs, fingers and toes. Notably the authors in the diagrams are usually wearing shoes, except for the toe lock pictures (these are actual toe locks, as opposed to a toe hold submission) and as most people usually wear shoes it\'s quite obvious that they are less likely to be usable than the other submissions. It also covers what would commonly be considered dirty tactics which are usually ignored in most books on grappling, including attacking the eyes, ears and groin. Throughout the book it keeps these possible attacks in mind and generally provides examples of techniques that are less vulnerable to attacking these areas than some techniques. I\'m glad to see this covered, especially in the context of common submissions. A lot of books will deal with either one or the other - submissions without the dirty tactics, or dirty tactics without the submissions. Both have their holes, although attempting to use dirty tactics without knowing the submissions is an excercise in both luck and futility. However with knowledge of submissions and control dirty tactics do become a viable option and including them does change strategies a bit as well as making certain moves and positions less viable than they were before.
Chapter 5 is \"Controlling the Arm\". I like the name of this chapter, although it covers mostly joint locks it does recognise the point that using joint locks isn\'t the only thing to focus on and that general arm control is also necessary. It covers a variety of arm bars as well as twisting joint locks. The majority of the arm bar examples are done with the arm trapped by one or both legs as well as being held with the hands. This is nothing unusual for experienced grapplers but is important for people who are used to standing joint locks and would likely be limited to armpit holds and a few other arm bars on the ground. Twisting joint locks are of course done mostly with the arms, so people experienced with standing locks will have a little more familiarity in this area. The legs are used mainly for controlling the body which is something that someone used to stand up submissions will likely not be used to. For someone experienced with grappling this chapter is pretty much standard fare, and that\'s a good thing. Also, unlike most books I have read, it covers several variations of the techniques, instead of just one or two. I find this handy for getting an idea of how it\'s possible to modify moves instead of just being limited to a few. Everyone will learn this eventually if they train for long enough, but the sooner the better, and this book will definitely help in the sooner depratment compared to some other books.
Chapter 6 is \"Controlling the Leg\". This chapter is very much like the previous one except that it obviously focuses on the legs instead of the arms. Like chapter 5 it has a brief listing of the bones of the legs as well as a brief general description of the anatomy of the leg. Like the arm chapter, the importance of controlling the leg with your legs is illustrated, the majority of the examples are shown with the leg being attacked trapped between the attacker\'s legs. Ankle and knee locks are covered, with both twisting knee locks and knee bars. My favorite leg lock, the Heel Hook is covered and while it does state that one should excercise caution I think it should have been emphasized more. One would hope that people would excercise caution when practicing any move, so it seems like stating the obvious. It should be mentioned that it should be applied slowly and that one shouldn\'t wait until feeling pain before tapping out - by that time damage has already been done.
Chapter 7 is \"Controlling the Head/Neck and Body\". The anatomy of the head and neck that is described is more detailed than for the arms and legs. Several diagrams are included and there\'s even a picture of a trachea - overly squeamish people might want to skip pages 246 and 247 although I don\'t recomend it - some very useful information is covered on both pages. The types of moves covered in this chapter are neck locks, body locks, strangles and chokes. The naming isn\'t entirely consistent, there are the forward and backward neck cranks, which are fairly descriptive and then there\'s the death lock and the full nelson. Most people know what a full nelson is, but I get the feeling that death lock is a term used in pro-wrestling and also give the impression that the move is somehow more dangerous than the other neck locks, which is not the case. I would have prefered if they\'d either used a more descriptive name for it or used the more common crucifix term. Strangles are described as sealing the vein while chokes are described as sealing the breath. Other books use the terms vascular choke/strangle instead of strangle and tracheal choke/strangle or just plain choke/strangle instead of choke. It covers the lateral vascular neck restraint which is what strangles are a variation of - it is the term used by police officers and it\'s not surprising this was chosen as the author is a police officer himself. These strangles include the rear naked strangle (or choke as it\'s more commonly referred to), arm triangle strangle, front/side strangle and guillotine. The triangle strangle (choke) is also described, with a number of variations. Resuscitation of someone who\'s been rendered unconscious by a strangle is also covered. The examples of chokes are a little more varied as they only require pressure to the trachea instead of pressure to both sides of the neck. It\'s described that there are many ways to choke someone, not just limited to using the arms. Some examples of chokes using the shin are described, although the examples are mostly arm chokes. Some body locks are described as well, although unlike the rest of the book it doesn\'t cover the principles all that well, there are four body locks described, but not in nearly as much detail as the arm, leg or neck locks. The 2 pages of body locks could have been left out and nobody would have noticed or cared, but I guess it\'s nice having a few more moves handy. I would have liked some more information on body locks however, with more than just lip service as I\'ve been in plenty of situations where I could have used one if I\'d just known how to do one.
Chapter 8 is \"Fighting Sequences\". 14 sample fight sequences are given, but the author states that the practitioner should draw on their own experience and use their own creativity to come up with more combinations and sequences themselves. Ideally nobody will just limit themselves to the 14 examples provided but I imagine that there are some people out there that will do just that. All the sequences provided start standing and seem to be mostly for standup strikers benefit. The examples given are generally takedowns from strikes, like trapping a kick and doing a takedown from there or blocking a punch and doing a throw from that. It would have been nice to see some takedowns as attacks instead of just counters. Admittedly, the focus of the book was on ground fighting so having a weak section on standup is expected.
The 2 appendixes at the end cover a glossary of both martial arts and medical terms and will be useful for a quick reference for any discussion of martial arts, and I imagine it would also work for a rudimentary discussion of medicine. The Index is also fairly comprehensive taking up just over 5 pages.
I\'m a little torn on the pictures for the techniques. On the one hand the pictures themselves are quite good: The pictures are in black and white and the people are white and grey, so it\'s easy to tell them appart. It also helps that arrows indicating the direction of movement as well as wave lines indicating where pressure is applied make this along with the rest of the books published by YMAA some of the best pictures I have ever seen. The problem is with how they are laid out. Each picture has a number which is referenced within the text, but the pictures are just one after the other at the top of the page, and sometimes the picture is on a different page than it\'s referenced on so there is some page flipping required. I would have prefered if there had been some white space on the pages but the pictures were all on the same page as they were referenced (or on the opposite page) and that each complete sequence didn\'t require any page flipping. This would have probably increased the size of the book from 400 pages to around 450 pages. I think that would have been feasible even if it increased the cost of the book a bit. I would definitely be willing to pay $35 for the book with some more pages and improved layout instead of the $30 for it as it is now.
Another issue I have is that it is weak on transitions and set ups. The principles of the submissions and holds are covere in detail, but fight strategies for applying them are very sparse. Whereas most grappling books I\'ve read would require you to reverse engineer the techniques to figure out the principles, this one requires you to reverse engineer the techniques to figure out the transitions. A book on freestyle wrestling would probably be best at filling this hole.
Despite these qualms Chin Na in Ground Fighting is an excellent book. Sometimes it\'s a little hard to read due to the page flipping and layout but the content is excellent as is the writing quality. It\'s a useful resource and I\'d reccomend it to anyone who is in the martial arts.
Edit:
In retrospect I\'m thinking I gave it a bit too high of a score. Since writing the review I\'ve come to the conclusion that positioning is so important that there isn\'t a good reason not to include it in a book. When I said it covers the principles of ground fighting I should have said it covers the principles of ground techniques. This is especially in light of a Judoka co-writing the book. Having said that, I still think it serves its purpose well - it shows how existing standup principles could be applied on the ground. It doesn\'t, however, solve the problem that without proper positioning knowledge the submissions won\'t be successful. If you\'re only going to buy one book on grappling, get Best Judo (I recomend it since it\'s the best grappling book I\'ve read so far, but there are other good books out there as well). If you\'re going to get a several books it doesn\'t hurt to get this book as it covers the mechanics and principles behind submissions in significantly more detail than other books I have read (which in general tell you how to do techniques but not how they work or why they work).
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chief108
Super Moderator
Registered: July 2002
Location: Z.O.D.
Posts: 21289
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Review Date: Mon November 15, 2004
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Would you recommend the product? Yes |
Price you paid?: None indicated
| Rating: 6
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so.. I'll keep it a little shorter than Robin did.
I think he did a great job giving a detailed overview of what the book is. From a grapplers point of view. From a Chin Na point of view the good part of this book is that is shows how your skills will work in ground fighting as well. Altogether I wasn't that much impressed with the book. I really think it doesn't add much, no matter where you come from. A (B)JJ person knows (most of) this stuff, a Chin Na practitioner does so too. The "power" lies in the use of the techniques and that's something you just gotta do yourself. So IMO you would be better off getting a better book on China Na and a better book on grappling.
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